STELLAR MAZE DISCUSSION FORUM

Are ENFJs susceptible to borderline personality disorders?

Don’t know where else to put this, so I’m putting it here.

@Erika asked a question recently that I found really interesting. And not at all stupid:
Do you think ENFJs are susceptible to borderline personality disorders or is this a stupid question?

My initial reaction was to say I thought there was a susceptibility there. That the ability to develop BPD behaviors would be present particularly for ENFJs.

So, here are some more of my thoughts… the things that I believe fit with both Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) & the ENFJ type:

outward focus . In my experience, people with BPD are very caught up and affected by everything outside of themselves. And they have an extremely hard time focusing only on themselves. They can struggle taking personal responsibility for their actions/behaviors, often saying things like “he made me…”
The outward focus is in a way such a part of BPD difficulties, that it is almost difficult for me to imagine an introverted Borderline. (I’m probably thinking of introversion too narrowly here, but oh well).

thrives off/needs intensity. When intensity wanes I think that’s when an ENFJ leaves to go find it elsewhere. The difference with someone with BPD is that instead of leaving, they tend to just create the intensity/drama themselves. Even if it is obviously destructive to themselves or others.

-challenges with self-image . This one is tricky. Because I think it’s a different sort of challenge with each. Borderlines often have unstable self-images; mostly (I believe) because of the outward focus…their self-image is often tied to/reliant upon other people or things. Though I don’t think ENFJs have an unstable self-image (quite the opposite actually. My guess is most balanced/healthy ENFJs probably know exactly who the fuck they are. They might not have a name for it, but they know it). However, I do believe ENFJs have a difficult time expressing or owning up to their self-image at times because it is so all-encompassing. Just like Blake’s title for his article: “Everything All Them Time”. When your self-image is everything “blended together in an indistinguishable way” people can have a hard time understanding that. Yeah. Challenging. Confusing. Especially to others. And this could probably come off as unstable (though I don’t in the slightest think it is).

-impulsivity. Not much to say for this. I think it’s just there to some degree with both. I would guess the more balanced/healthy an ENFJ is, the less impulsive they will likely come across. But it’s probably still there & will likely rear its head in time.

moodiness . The BPD part of this is again, I think, related to the outward focus. Borderlines are often hyperreactive emotionally to stimuli. On the other hand, an ENFJ can come across as moody as well (though often to nowhere near the extreme as one with BPD), as a result of accessing different parts of themselves in response to their environment. The difference in an ENFJ who does not have BPD, is that they will likely have some level of control over these changes in moods.

One thing that maybe doesn’t quite fit so well:
Abandonment: It doesn’t really strike me as an ENFJ thing to be fearful of abandonment. Mostly because the ENFJ nature to be the abandoner themselves. It doesn’t seem this tendency to leave is triggered by a fear of being left. Maybe I’m wrong. But I could definitely see that ENFJs could develop a fear of abandonment as a result of their behaviors. Overall, though, I tend to see ENFJs as a little too independently minded to have a strong fear of abandonment.

Having said all of this, I should add that I personally believe that most, if not all, people who have BPD, do so, not because of any personality type, but because of what they learned , or failed to learn , from their primarily relationships in life (particularly the formative ones in early life).
Maybe any personality type could have BPD. But I definitely think some ENFJ characteristics could predispose someone, or at the very least add some serious fuel to the destructive BPD fire, once ignited.

If BPD is this shit, then yes, ENFJ all the way.
https://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borderline.html

Somehow, BPD doesn’t strike me as a disorder, but more just a volatile, emotional person.

For some reason, I thought borderline was something else having to do with building one’s self-image completely on the relationship partner such that if that person leaves, it destroys their whole world.

Actually, that makes sense for ENFJ and I think that is what borderline is getting at. For example, I assign an implied Neptune in 7th house position to ENFJ (as one of the four NF types who all would have Neptune strong in first, fourth, seventh, or tenth house), which makes sense as a sort of symbolic descriptor of what I think borderline descriptions are getting at - intense idealization of The Other. I called this the Search for the Dream Lover (for E3 ENFJ).

However, where I differ from conventional psychology is that I don’t see all this shit as pathology that just needs to be normalized out to fit with SJ society. I actually resent the pathologization of everything outside the boring norm of behavior and need.

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I couldn’t agree with this more. One of the psychiatrists I work with and respect a fuckton always says so much of what we do (in psychiatry/psychology) is just medicalizing normal human experience these days. And that’s so fucking true. But at the end of the day, in my world, sadly, without a diagnosis code, the community center I work in will not get paid. And money makes our current medical system, and world for that matter, go round. The way I deal with this professionally is to use a diagnosis called Adjustment disorder a lot, which basically amounts to you’ve been through some shit and are dealing with it. The people I actually give or maintain a Borderline diagnosis to have some real shit they need legit therapy for in order to have any shot at living a well/balanced/happy/fulfilling/fill-in-the-blank-here…… life. I think people can have borderline tendencies without having the disorder. To have the disorder, in my book, that shit’s gotta be doing some real and continued destruction in your life…preventing adequate functionality basically. Just my two cents.

I would love to know if there are other personality types that have a tendency to be fearful of abandonment, if anyone has thoughts about that!

I agree. There is a trend nowadays to over-diagnose people with personality disorders. I’m not within the field, but it seems to me pretty dangerous to trap normal people into identifying with a pathology they don’t actually have. The bar needs to be set higher for what qualifies as an actual personality disorder.

Most people are probably better off with intensive counselling, learning how to re-direct their tendencies into better outlets. The work of counsellors should be better valued nowadays. Only the most extreme cases should be considered for psychiatric treatment.

And I’m scared that I’m even saying this online, because what I just wrote up there is very much un-PC.

I think Blake once said that INFP seems to be a borderline type, but I’ve never been so sure of that. However, I think INFPs can be pretty fearful of abandonment, in the sense that they crave that one true love to sweep them off their feet and can mope over the lack of it all their fucking lives. And if an INFPs’ one true love calls it off, one might be saying he/she just destroyed the INFPs’ entire fucking world.

However, INFPs are soft romantics while ENFJs are hard romantics. An ENFJ will want to fall hard and crave intensity. An INFP is very much not like this. Their “love palace” is built slowly and steadily. Intensity might even drive an INFP away. But once their kingdom is built, it’s built, locked into their egos (Fi dominance), so to break it all down can really hurt an INFP.

So I think INFPs do fear abandonment in some sense, but not in the way of ENFJs. I don’t think INFPs really possess borderline tendencies. I think they are too soft-edged to fit into that category.

Actually, when I first came across a description of BPD, I actually thought INFJ could fit the bill. The focus on the Other that you emphasised would probably disqualify INFJs now that I think of it, but all the other characteristics basically describing emotional volatility and craving intensity in relationships really sounded like Ni and Fi to me, AKA, INFJ to me. I can easily see the flip-flop between over-valuation and de-valuation of partners as a Scorpio moon problem, but maybe I’m not understanding INFJ Fi-id correctly. You see, I actually don’t understand my own id. It’s just something I feel in the moment. And once I’m out of the fire, Fi-id is just a foreign entity to me.

OK, I take that back. I think it’s all just down to too much feeling and the lack of thinking functions to counteract it. To me, BPD doesn’t seem to be describing a very specific condition. The defining characteristics cover the whole range of “pathological” manifestations of overactive feeling functions, and you only have to exhibit a subset of these symptoms to be diagnosed with BPD.

I’d say the ENFJ type is the top contender for susceptibility to BPD, and might even cover the whole range of symptoms depending on subtypes and/or background. Then I’d put INFJ as the next contender. And then any other feeling type cursed with way too many emotions, the harder-edged kind.

…Well I’ve been accused of being borderline! :wink: But that was by an INTx with Aspergers-ish tendencies.

Anyways, I think BPD should be re-defined. To re-define it as an over-focus on the Other makes a lot of sense to me. The problem is adding tons of other descriptors with no prioritization of one over the other. I find the self-harming description the most confounding one out of all of them, although it is one of the most common symptoms of BPD.

I have to say self-mutilation doesn’t sound very ENFJ to me. I wonder how many troubled ENFJs actually cut themselves?

Ooh, I think some ENFJs are not only capable of self-mutilation, they might even turn it into an art form.

Care to elaborate? Or nah?

I can envision ENFJs harming themselves through impulsive, reckless behavior, like turning to drugs, alcohol, or food.

However, there is something to cutting that always struck me as different from the above. I see cutting as exclusively directing rage or hatred towards oneself, while impulsively swallowing a bunch of pills or binging on alcohol/food strikes me as rage directed outwards and inwards at the same time.

I’m probably not looking at this correctly, though. I compartmentalize and over-simplify human behavior way too much! :smiley:

If self-mutilation is performed with the intent to be observed, then I can see how ENFJs might be into it.

Apparently some people also cut so they can reassure themselves that they have a body and that they exist. It’s a way to cope with emptiness and an unstable sense of self. I can see how that’s ENFJ, too.

Yes, but sometimes even the most impulsive, reckless behaviors have been carefully premeditated, each dose taken into account and optimized.

I’ve seen a full spectrum of self-harming behaviors that has much more nuance than I can process at this point in time. Cutting because of self-hatred and pain, cutting because one would rather harm themselves than be at risk of harming others, cutting because there is something cathartic about it, cutting to be observed, yes. To punish self and others. To stop feeling or to express feelings.

now that I’m reading that, I wonder if one might say that’s always the case with ENFJs…

The art comment was about how the self-harming can sometimes manifest as a penchant for extreme body alteration or a way of experimenting with performing arts where the body becomes a canvas. Something like Marina Abramovic’s “Rhythm 0”, for lack of a better example. There is this desire to push boundaries and reveal the dark side of human nature, while at the same time playing with violence and exposing oneself.
I don’t know if that makes sense, but these tendencies are related in my mind and look like two faces of the same coin.

I fucking love this place.

Yep. In the world I work in at least, not a single professional thinks any personality disorder should be medicated. Counseling is the only appropriate action.

This is it, isn’t it! You’ve fucking nailed it. The key to BPD.
And this fits why ENFJs would be a top contender, as you said. Then INFJ.
My guess is anyone strongly exhibiting their feeling functions could be “accused” of having BPD.

Personally, my ENFJ make-up can “get” borderline tendencies. But whatever Ti or Ni I got going on makes me want to shake some fucking sense into some borderline people. Sometimes, at least.

ahahahahahah!

Ok, I’ve got a little secret. Here are some links I’ve developed in my head…
They are by no means accurate. But fit (in my stupid head) the way any stereotype does…

INFJ’s have a potential to have OCD tendencies. (Ni-Ti loop)
ENFJ’s have a shit ton of borderline potential (unhealthy outward focus, particularly on dream lover)
And INTJ’s have at least a little dusting of the TISM. As in one end of the autism spectrum (help me out here motherfuckers… what cog functions explain this?).

and

Both of these things… the turning it into an artform and the rage directed outwards and inwards… seem VERY borderline and very ENFJ to me.

Goddamn this is getting interesting.

Shit. Yeah. Ok. Hmmm.

I actually did more research and realised that the psychiatric field considers personality disorders to be different from mood disorders. Personality disorder is basically having an inherently difficult personality, and should not be medicated, whereas a mood disorder is some sort of chemical imbalance in the brain that is separate from one’s own innate temperament and needs to be treated with drugs. Well, my ignorance was corrected for the day!

Still, I’ve met two people with BPDs (one of them likely ENFJ or INFJ w/ ENFJ subtype) who both actually took drugs (anti-psychotics for example). Maybe because of overlap with manic-depressive tendencies? Anyways, that gives me the shudders. I always have this irrational hatred for ingesting things that play with your mind. You never know how you’ll react to them. One day you might be get better, another day you might end up hallucinating and be totally nonfunctional. You complain to the doctor. The doctor doesn’t listen to you and keep insisting you take them. Not cool.

I guess what I take issue with is putting a name to these so-called “difficult personalities” and calling them “disorders.” It’s innately stigmatizing.

LOL, yeah. I think so, too. INTPs and ISTJs would probably qualify for this category too. I’d say autism is most likely to be ascribed to overactive Ti. Ti in the id position would definitely give off an inherent “autistic” flavour to any INTJ or even ISTJ, regardless of whether or not they suffer from full blown Aspergers or autism. Overactive Si combined with Ti can also yield autism, the sort revolved around fixation on very specific objects. But if we’re talking about inherent lack of understanding of emotions and people-side of autism, then that would be most ascribed to Ti in the id position or Ti dominance, methinks.

Yeah, I think you are right, @Nur. When I first said this:

I originally meant that impulsive binging on drugs/alcohol/food appears to be rage directed towards the objects (meaning what’s ingested) and oneself at the same time. I’ve always felt that consuming “things” vs. directly hurting one’s own body tissue were two slightly different things. In the former situation, there seems to be a relationship-thing going on between what’s ingested (a projection of someone or something) and the subject (the victim).

I think there is a bit of truth to it, but it doesn’t apply to all situations. You’re right. There are all sorts of other reasons why a person might cut themselves. I think a key one that you mentioned is that cutting can be cathartic; it’s another “pathological” outlet for expressing one’s pent up emotions. And actually, it’s very physical, very violent, very sexual… So I can see how that’s very ENFJ.

Binging on things is also another way to express unbearable emotions, but perhaps less raw and physical than cutting oneself. So actually, yeah, cutting and impulsive binging can be grouped into the same category: a cry to express oneself, AKA a “rage directed inwards and outwards.” Very ENFJ!

And actually, I think impulsive binging on pleasure and reckless behaviour all strike me as sexual, too… It’s like pent-up sexual, expressive energy becoming self-destructive, because it’s not being used properly…

Some other miscellaneous thoughts I can’t be bothered to tie up neatly with the rest:

  • I think that if someone is cutting for attention, it doesn’t pass as a bona fide self mutilation problem. It is simply harmful attention-seeking behaviour that will last as long as it’s being fed. I’m not sure if it will fit into the “borderline” description in that case, but it still fits with ENFJ.

  • I also don’t think putting one’s own body at risk of being mutilated by others as an art form counts as “self-mutilation” either. It’s just dangerous, edgy art. Pure Ni avant-garde shit right there. This is ENFJ sexual energy and fascination with violence being put to good use. I guess that’s what you meant, when you said:

  • And actually, when I first thought of cutting, I thought of it as an internal Fi ritual that looks somewhat like this: self-hatred > punish > feel shame/guilt > seclude oneself, hide scars > repeat with shame and guilt being the fuel to the vicious cycle. This is why I didn’t really think it was ENFJ at first.

Anyways, enough! I’m probably being ridiculous, over-explaining the shit out of myself right now.

Hmm. I think INFJs have the potential to develop personality disorders across all the clusters - schizotypal (Class A), narcissistic (Class B), borderline (Class B), avoidant (Class C), and OCPD (Class C). INFJs are probably most susceptible to becoming avoidant out of all those disorders, though. I think Blake said something about that somewhere in the main website…

According to Wikipedia:

“Those affected display a pattern of severe social anxiety, social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy and inferiority, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation, and rejection, and avoidance of social interaction despite a strong desire for intimacy.”

“People with AvPD often consider themselves to be socially inept or personally unappealing and avoid social interaction for fear of being ridiculed, humiliated, rejected, or disliked. They often avoid becoming involved with others unless they are certain they will be liked.”

That sounds like Fi-id to me!

And apparently, OCD and OCPD are two different things. OCPD seems to fit with INFJ better than OCD. Overfixation on Ti might explain OCPD tendencies, but I don’t see all INFJs resonating with this disorder. I see multiple types possibly fitting into the OCPD description, maybe ISxJs most… Si, Ti, maybe even Te (the dumb sort of Te) problems. I can even see certain type 3s having OCPD tendencies.

Yeah. Sad. Scary. People even prescribe antipsychotics for sleep :imp::expressionless:. And several antipsychotics have street value now too, as drugs of abuse.
But then again, almost any medication can be ah, abused…
Case in point:

10-12 benadryl dude. Watch out.
Hey schlops, does this guy resemble the E8 ENFJ porn star of your dreams or what….
Ahahahahahaha!

Ok, I have more reading to do!

I thought this might be it! Yay. Ok, gotcha.

Great way to put it. I have a feeling that end of the autism spectrum will disappear from the DSM in good time. Much of this shit might actually. Kinda the way homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. What fucking stupidity.

Hmmm. Ok. Yeah.

Of course, self-harming behaviors are very different from suicide attempts, but…
Whatever you call it, self-harming and suicidal gestures that are attention seeking are often seen as a borderline thing (it’s actually one of the DSM V diagnostic criteria). When I’m doing a full history on a patient, one of the first clues that I might need to monitor for borderline tendencies is when I ask if they have ever attempted suicide or attempted to end their life & their answer is something like “a ton of times”. When you force them to estimate how many attempts they have had, the higher the estimated number probably correlates directly with the risk for borderline tendencies. Then, when you break down these “attempts” you often find that there was never an actual attempt, but near attempts that were always interrupted by the person standing right next to them. Yeah. Maybe watch for some borderline shit going forward.
You have to be careful though. Because people with BPD tragically do actually successfully complete suicide, statistically.

I’m sure you are right about this.
My inaccurate stereotype is mostly influenced by my very personal experience. And is not at all reliable or valid. I can guarantee that. Ha.
I really should have left that one about INFJs out, actually.

And yeah. Big differences between OCD and OCPD. When most people say “OCD” they really mean something more like OCPD, I think. It’s a bit of a pet peeve of mine because someone I love dearly was crippled by OCD. Entirely fucking different beast. Don’t refer to your fucking preference for order, perfectionism or inflexibility as OCD. K. Thanks.

I think what my very limited experience was showing me is that there is almost something strangely illogical about the Ni-Ti loop. And I recognize how fucktarded that sounds. Because the Ni-Ti loop is so fucking thoughtful and shit. But it is also really fucking illogical too. And this resonates with the illogical part of OCD (to me).

LMAO, what the fuck?!

Damn, totally. He’s got the secret to E8 ENFJ’s sexual charisma. Antipsychotic aphrodisiac.

Hmm, OK! I didn’t see that in most online descriptions, the attention-seeking bit. I assumed these behaviors would come out of too much unbearable emotion. But DOY, it’s probably both things! :stuck_out_tongue: Makes fucking sense, doesn’t it?

Hmm, I feel like a clueless idiot right now trying to understand the obvious here. I can be dense like that at times. Ignore my dumbness.

Drama, drama, DRAMA!

I think you’re right, there can be something very “illogical” about the Ni-Ti loop when it’s in overdrive. Ni is a subjective perception function. It is irrational. Too much Ni without grounding to reality is asking for insanity.

When I think of Ni-Ti in crazy overdrive, I think of a stream of really intelligent sounding words that might sound really fucking logical or something, but isn’t actually clear or logical or sound when you take a step back and look at the big fucking picture. It can also lead to a conclusion that’s way off the mark. I see it in INTJs at times. Probably INFJs, too. And I can see how pathological Ni-Ti can culminate in illogical, obsessive thoughts.

The problem is most OCD descriptions seem to relate with obsession over Si-matters and self-preservation shit. I’m just going by the standardized medical description here: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/. I’m sure there are INFJs who can develop OCD of that sort of flavour, but probably not many. The compulsion bit of OCD is hard for me to envision in INFJs, but it’s possible.

But maybe there is a much more diverse array of what OCD might look like. I’m no expert on all this psychiatric shit anyways. You need to teach me this shit! :stuck_out_tongue: Anyways, I just briefly read that OCD can co-occur with schizotypal personality disorder. That sort of OCD sounds more Ni/Ti-flavored. So OCD INFJ seems possible.

And actually, I can see illogical, overactive INFJ Ni-Ti manifesting as something schizotypal or paranoid - classic INTJ pathologies. I feel like “pathological” Ni/Ti will look more like those two than OCD.

But whaddo I know? I no understand humans. The best I can do is type human beings, but I feel like my insight into HUMAN BEINGS and of human nature is so fucking lacking. :upside_down_face: But the calculator in me thinks the above might be true.

I see. I’ll have to chew on this. Yes. I see.

Oh definitely not. For so many reasons. But most of all, all this psych shit consists of some arbitrary current definition decided by who the fuck ever. None of it really matters. But I think the links or commonalities between the personality types/cog functions and the psych world are very interesting.

Now there’s some interesting shit. I think at most I’ve maybe met one person in 2.5 years who might have had this diagnosis.

Pshhhhhhh. Please woman. Please. I’d go to some great lengths to have access to that calculator of yours. And I do believe I am not alone. :star_struck::smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

I strongly suspect that a lot of ATS-related “disorders” are in fact extreme manifestations of these two functions. This explains many of the otherwise puzzling array of symptoms assigned to ATS.

The heightened sensitivity to sensory input, tendency to take everything literally, and obsession with “rituals” sounds suspiciously like heightened Si.

The shyness, difficulties with emotional expression and relationships, and general obliviousness to body language (and other social cues) sounds awfully like maxed-out Ti (which also implies a total shutdown of Fe).

It’s even possible that these are two discrete and unrelated clusters of symptoms. They’ve been lumped together simply because the MBTI types most commonly labeled with ATS are particularly strong in both Si and Ti (as well as having poor access to Fe). This includes:

ISTJ (Si-dom, Ti-Id, Fe-Superego)
INTP (Ti-dom, Si-tertiary, Fe-inferior)
ISTP (Ti-dom, Fe-inferior, Si-Id)

Less so for INTJ (Ti-Id, Fe Superego, Si-Demon) as the Demonic/8th function is notoriously weak or erratic for most people.

INTJs are prone to the social ineptness (they can be notoriously blunt and cutting), but an evolved INTJ will typically compensate by studying and practicing social skills.

An extension of my intuition about ATS is that many other so-called “personality disorders” can be correlated to the other type functions.

For example, many of the described symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) are identical to having weak or inferior Sensing, so I would expect to see an over abundance of N-doms misdiagnosed with ADD.

In the past, ADD was used as a catch-all for general dreaminess and difficulty focusing attention on tedious but important activities, such as rote learning or repetitive tasks. This could describe all four N-doms (INFJ, INTJ, ENFP and ENTP), particularly when young or poorly developed.

But the dreamy vagueness of young INJs was seen as less of a problem for educators, as they were usually quiet, and often managed to learn the basics of early learning programs without having to try very hard.

I certainly was like this as a child. Born with a vivid imagination and a low tolerance for tedious reality, I spent most of my years in early education living inside my internal world.

However, I was also blessed with the Ni-derived ability to section off parts of my sub-conscious and assign them to the tedious business of, say, repetitive rote-learning and memorising facts in order to satisfy my teachers and family. Many INFJs and INTJs share this marvellous talent for skipping the boring bits by cruising along on autopilot!

Other parts of my mind could tap into my nascent Fe function; so as to pretend to be paying attention and to simulate polite behaviour and good manners. I retain that handy ability to this day, frequently dipping in and out of conscious awareness and switching to autopilot as soon as I start to get bored with a conversation or tedious workplace meeting.

But you’d have a hard job noticing anything, as my well-trained Fe-autopilot will continue to nod and smile and utter platitudes as if I was still actively listening. By this trick, I successfully hid my inattention and memorised sufficient course material to achieve decent grades while also being praised as a well behaved and “nice” student.

INTJs are much less able to access Fe to simulate empathy and other social niceties. Their own Te may prompt them become cynical and even scathing about the intellectual failings of their teachers, and they start to act up by arrogantly criticising or mocking the more weak-minded teachers or fellow students. One of my best friends was probably an INTJ and was in constant trouble for talking back to his teachers. He also suffered terribly from being bullied by other kids, as he never did learn to curb his mouthiness and utter contempt when under verbal attack.

Other INTJs learned to use their Te more constructively, by developing competence in those subjects which interested them, or by using their organisational skills to play at being “Teacher’s Little Helper”.

Young ENPs faced a different set of challenges due to their even lower tolerance for boredom, a stronger preference for abstract learning and their naturally-high energy-levels. It is hard to imagine a less conducive learning environment for these two types than your typical kindergarten or junior classroom.

The deadly combination of rote learning, repetition, and the requirement to sit still and concentrate for hours must have been hellish for the quick-witted and restless ENTPs and ENFPs. These types usually learn best when able to ask lots of questions and are given plenty of time to experiment with open-ended activities.

This was the exact opposite of most infant classes, so it’s little wonder that ENPs extreme boredom and frustration frequently caused them to become highly disruptive and inattentive.

Most ENPs of my acquaintance (and I know a huge number!) were constantly getting into trouble at school for “bad behaviour” and labelled as troublemakers or having learning difficulties.

Many were hauled off to see a child psychologist, and the unlucky ones were diagnosed with a new type of ADD inventively referred to as ADHD (the H stood for Hyperactivity, which may have been the real behavioral issue faced by teachers and parents).

Most got force-fed amphetamines ( and later Ritalin or its equivalents) as a means of suppressing their fast-paced and wide-ranging Ne and forcing their young minds into an unnaturally (for them) linear and obsessively one-tracked intensity.

Every ENP I’ve spoken to described their experience of being required to take stimulant drugs as both horribly depressing and unnaturally confining, with many unpleasant side-effects. But they started to do better at school and didn’t get into so much trouble, so trried their best to stick with the medication for a while.

Most eventually stopped taking it to alleviate the unpleasant side-effects, once they were no longer seen as “problem children” (though they still pretended to “keep taking the pills” to avoid furtherbtrouble with the authorities). The more enterprising ones started up the lucrative business of selling the potent stimulants to the other kids.

For non-ENPs, amphetamines worked differently, typically inducing intense euphoria and a feeling of invincibility and manic energy, so were highly sought after by other young people. Sometimes the parents themselves encouraged their kids to come off the pills, as they could see how inappropriate it was to force feed young children with potent psychoactive stimulants.

One of my friends actually gave me her son’s entire supply of Ritalin to dispose of, as she hated how it affected her child and decided to banish it from their house…

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I love everything about both of your posts @Stewart!! :purple_heart::purple_heart::purple_heart::purple_heart:

Thanks, Sweetie Darling!

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