Art that makes love to your brain


#1

I was planning to create a topic dealing with your literature recommendations. But that’s to shallow. I am not interested in experiences that are not extreme.

Emily Dickinson said: “If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold no fire can warm me I know that is poetry”. That is poetry itself. I want to know if you ever made a connexion to a piece of art that shocked you so much that you had to rebuild yourself from the debris.

That doesn’t happen very often. It would be too much mental weight… The best poetry causes a physical reaction: those are the only moments where I feel my body and my mind are in perfect alignment. If you have ever felt it you know the feeling: it IS about direct reactions, I’ve come to learn that reading while thinking is nonsense to me. I can do that when I’m studying a particular poem or play, but the first read has to be direct, and talk directly to my Intuition with no veils in between.

I’ll start with an example myself: the first time I read the Divine Comedy I thought it was hideous, a poor attempt of Romantic Love Gospel. But after some weeks my Ti cracked, and I instinctively returned to Dante. And I read through Fe. And this time I reached the core: the grandeur of the poem is not in its Theology, but in using that Theology to create a correspondence between Mind and Space.

An example. In Hell, Canto XXXII, Dante finds Conde Ugolino eating the brains of his political enemy Rugieri:

I saw two shades frozen in a single hole
packed so close, one head hooded the other one;
the way the starving devour their bread, the soul
above had clenched the other with his teeth
where the brain meets the nape.

(I post it in Italian too so you can hear its music; you don’t need to speak Italian to enjoy its sound)

Noi eravam partiti già da ello,
ch’io vidi due ghiacciati in una buca,
sì che l’un capo a l’altro era cappello;

e come ’l pan per fame si manduca,
così ’l sovran li denti a l’altro pose
là ’ve ’l cervel s’aggiugne con la nuca:

In the next Canto, this Count tells his story. He tells how he and his children were made prisoners by Rugieri inside the Tower of Hunger. The children, starving, offer their body to his father:

'Father our pain', they said,
'Will lessen if you eat us you are the one
Who clothed us with this wretched flesh: we plead
For you to be the one who strips it away'. 

 e disser: "Padre, assai ci fia men doglia 
 se tu mangi di noi: tu ne vestisti 
 queste misere carni, e tu le spoglia".                            

The father answers:

And then the hunger had more
Power than even sorrow over me 

Before that, Ugolino had describe a dream: he had seen the sons of three great Italian families pursued by starving hounds.

Now, the magic of this Canto is that it automatically makes you think of cannibalism, but it is never stated that Ugolino ate his children’s bodies. It is suggested through Ruggieri’s punishment and Ugolino’s dream. My Ti was trying to get the allegory of the punishment. My Fe -or Fi?- catched the primal horror of cannibalism: if you eat you can be eaten. If you have a body, it can be used, torn apart; the father devouring the offspring, the return to the seed in times of despair.

Well, those are things that my Ti can classify as archetypes and verbalize only when it was off during the experience. That’s the way I gain infinite pleasure in art.

I’d like to share more, but tell me: can you relate to this feeling I describe?


#2

Hi, @Puck! Sadly, I haven’t finished the divine comedy. It depressed me a little too much. But it’s still waiting for me, so cross your fingers! Some other sad stuff I recommend is T.S. Eliot and Fernando Pessoa. You want to spiral into a deep, beautiful, depression, read The Book of Disquiet by Pessoa. Good stuff.


#3

Plath does that to me… Dostoyevsky… Rilke… The Bronte sisters… I think they evoke the id… it’s infinite pleasure/pain…

Jorge Luis Borges… he’s another guy who really affected me… in a very Ti way though…

There was this book too… Capote’s In Cold Blood… just the humanity of it… the sensitivity of one of the murderers, Perry Edward Smith… heartbreaking…


#4

Oh, yes!

I recently started reading a manga called Kuzu no Honkai (Scum’s Wish). The relationship between Narumi and Akane really shocked me and made me consider what “unconditional love” really is.

Basically, Narumi is serious about dating Akane. Akane really only gave Narumi attention so that she could annoy someone else. Like, she has no sincere feelings for him. She only likes to date guys so that she can see others that are in love with the men she is with in pain. So, to see Narumi like Akane so much (because she has a sweet and kind persona, plus she’s a cutie) is really heartbreaking. You can tell he sincerely likes her for more than her looks. He is serious about her, so that translated to him proposing to her.

I was certain that Akane would turn him down, but when Akane tells him that she would still have sex with other men, he goes “that’s fine”.

Now, this is where my brain EXPLODES.

I’m like, “didn’t you say you were serious about her? HOW IS THIS BEING SERIOUS!?”. Then, after fumbling through my own biases and personal judgments, I took a step back and considered Narumi’s perspective.

He says he is serious about being with Akane. I thought this meant that he was just intent on being in a relationship with her. I had no idea that he would want to marry her in such a short amount of time (or, it feels like a short amount of time, I binge read all the chapters). Regardless, I was sure that he would not want to marry her after what Akane says. Instead, he says that Akane could be with other men because he wants to see her (someone he loves) happy.

Now, some people would rush to say that he is a doormat or is a beta male. I had my own thoughts and feelings on his actions, but, after seeing him say that he just wants to see her happy, my mind explodes, AGAIN. I think people can be quick to expect a relationship to look a certain way. Like, in my mind, I would never engage in this kind of relationship. I would want complete monogamy, but that’s just me. Narumi, on the other hand, is fine to let Akane be with other people if that is what makes her happy. In this case, I then went on to think that Narumi has unconditional love for Akane.

What is unconditional love? Surely, one can’t just love someone without the other person fulfilling some obligations, right? Like, we all should be able to expect to be treated kindly, to be told the truth, and to have the other person love us. But, what happens when one person’s vision of love is different from someone else’s? One person may see their significant other having sex with another person as cheating, while another person sees it as not cheating because that person is free to do what they want. Who’s right in this situation? Is one party displaying unconditional love, while the other one isn’t?

Well, when I think of unconditional love, I see the word unconditional, and assume you will love a person in any circumstance without condition. This can be applied in a lot of ways. It can be that maybe your significant other has an annoying way of talking, yet you still love them, or it could be that your lover is a mass murderer, yet you still love them. When you consider how extreme some of these circumstances can get, it seems that unconditional love is impossible. Yeah, if my partner always farts without warning, that’s annoying, but if they steal from a bank, I don’t love them anymore!

After making this realization, I don’t think I am capable of unconditional love. I want my partner to be with me only. I want to see them happy, but is their happiness worth it if making me feel insecure or unwanted? I probably wouldn’t think so.

So, this was a bit of a realization to come to. I thought I was always capable of unconditional love, but the truth is, I want what I want. And not only that, but I want the person I’m with to want the same things to. I don’t think our form of love is less than unconditional love, but it’s what makes us happy and doesn’t hurt anyone, what’s wrong with it?

Haha, so yeah. This is the time some fictional story showed me that I can’t unconditionally love someone. Ah, tragic :slight_smile:.


#5

Wow, is Borges popular outside Spanish-speaking countries? What book do you prefer? Here,The Aleph is compulsory reading, though many students complain about it because its hard to understand. It is. As you said, I think Borges is a writer that talks to your Ti. “Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius”, “Pierre Menard” and “The Garden of Forking Paths” are among my favourite short stories, but I have a love hate relationship with the man…like I feel that he wasn’t truly a writer, rather than an essayist who used fiction as a tool. But that is something that happens to me with many short story writers.

And @Ankh , I am fortunate enough to be able to read Pessoa in Portuguese. Here in Galicia we have our own tongue, very close to Portuguese (like Portuguese spoken with Italian accent and lots of Spanish words in the middle haha), so his language is very close to mine. The way he used heteronyms is something worth thinking about. Like, I feel he was trying to say something else in that way than what seems evident. After reading him in different impersonations you end up questioning the sense of identity, but in a way he seems to melt in the Universe. That’s truly a sense of Disquiet haha.


#6

Hum, that is very, very interesting. Love, romantic love, I feel has a component of actually making the other one feel uncomfortable every once in a while. We just love what we don’t have. It migh be an issue of mine that I always see love as a sort of pleasant fight.

A couple of years ago I wrote a play, and among other characters, there was a couple where the girl was younger and more attractive than the husband. She kept seducing men in order to always appear as someone new to her husband. He enjoyed jealousy because it kept him inspired. It turns that the woman loves the man more than the man loves the husband, as she really doesn’t like the men she seduces, and does it just because it is the way to keep fire burning. I think I wrote those characters because I can reach to be any side of that relationship: a victim enjoying jealousy and a slut wondering how to cause it.

So! It would be fun to think that Narumi knew that side of Akane even before she tells him that she would have sex with other men. Maybe he is a bit of a masochist. I know, that is too far fetched, but it happens in real life!


#7

Right? Like, romantic love has so many different components and is always showed in this fluffy and perfect way in movies or books. Or, like a tinge of angst is added to make it more interesting, and gasp different!

Loving what we don’t have, don’t get me started! That pretty much encapsulates every crush I’ve ever had.

Hey, if you see love as a pleasant fight, why not? There are so many different forms of love one can indulge in anyway, take your pick :grin:!

You wrote a play? Cool!

Oo, juicy plot.

Yeah, completely! All the main characters in the manga are kind of scummy. Narumi is the only one who hasn’t really acted in the same way as the other characters. I’m not sure if he is supposed to serve as a foil to the other characters, or if the mangaka is waiting to show that Narumi is like everyone else. Ugh! I can’t tell, but your theory could definitely have some validity to what is going on :wink:.


#8

Yes! And more so, plain existence. I was in that mindset when I wrote Repose. I had a feeling of non-existence. Looking around in my room and seeing things. Things that I got, I bought. Things that are supposed to represent me or please me and I felt a huge disconnect. Like no one knows me, I don’t know me. I’m alone. I have this feeling…hmmm…I say, quite frequently. Of being alone. And life is a distraction.

But, shhh - I’m too pretty and happy to cry. And if I cry it’s about breaking a nail, not the question of my existence.


#9

Hey, @Puck - can we post visual art here, too?


#10

Yes, actually you have readen my mind because my original intention was to post music, visual art and literature, but this took the way it took.

So, make the first move.


#11

Sweeeeet! I’m good at that. BRB - gotta find something shocking.


#12

Thoughts?


#13

Did you draw this?


#14

I wish! No. Unfortunately, I don’t know the artist, I found it on Pinterest.


#15

Hum, promise you wont record a podcast with Blake if I say I don’t like it!

Just kidding. I like it in terms of execution. Isn’t human anatomy the most amazing thing in nature? It is, no doubt. But when I see it I think it’s more of a formal exercise with the concept of union of life and death working somehow as an excuse. It doesn’t talk directly to my ¿intuition? But I do love to see that artists that regard anatomy as something important are becoming more popular again.

Oh, that butt is heaven. Reminded me of something:

It’s a detail of The Rape of Proserpina by Bernini. The way the skin slightly sinks…it’s so organic. I thought you would like it.


#16

Wowowowow! I love it! Yes, and I love the same feature! The way they can sculpt something that is so hard to look like soft supple skin amazes me. How does someone not get flushed in the face when they see this? I would love to look at people’s face when they first lay their eyes on it. Like, yeah I know what you’re thinking about, trying to act all cool.

Yeah, that is a fine ass, isn’t it? Makes you wanna take a bite out of it. I think the drawing was something to do with the plague. But to me…well. I like dark things. I’m not into necro, but it’s more the theme I like. Life/Death.


#17

Don’t worry, I’m attracted to it too. I think you will love this:


Most people find it strange, but I understand it. And I think it’s healthy to have this kind of experience with death. Healthier than a world of preservatives and cremation. Yeah folks, things get rotten. Worms have to eat. Get over it.

You should check Munch too, there is always something cadaveric about his bodies. And:



By Masao Yamamoto.


#18

Hey @Jumpman you like anime very much right? I have little experience on it, though a friend of mine who is taking Film studies has recommended his favourites: Cowboy Bebop and Mushishi. I LOVED them.

But I have a little obsession with Evangelion. I watch it once a year. Have you watched it?


#19

Your friend has exquisite taste!

I’ve been into anime for a while. I’m not sure why I feel so drawn to watch various series in a different language. Hm, I guess I just like going on an emotional adventure as a viewer!

But yeah, those anime your friend recommended are great. Cowboy Bebop is a classic. As for Mushishi, I have that on a list of anime I want to watch in the future. With that said, I can see why you love these series :grin:!

You know what? I haven’t watched Evangelion! Everyone seems to love it so I really should watch it soon. It’s like one of those anime you have to watch if you don’t want weird looks from those people who are really enthusiastic about anime (tell someone like that you don’t know who Hayao Miyazaki is, YOU’LL REGRET IT!).

Haha, but it’s cool you that you have an appreciation for anime! Experience doesn’t matter, you just like what you like. When Spring Break comes, I think I’ll try to binge watch Evangelion and Mushishi.


#20

These artists do play with life and death images don’t they? Where there is life, there is death and vice versa.

I don’t know if it’s my Pluto in Scorpio acting up, but I’ve been oddly attracted to these photos a lot lately. There is a dream I had once that I’ll never forget. I had sex with the Grim Reaper. It was amazing. Haha. And ever since, I have been attracted to those images.

And yes, human anatomy has always fascinated me. I was interested in anatomy since my first frog dissection. I’ve also played around with real human skeletons and human cadavers.

I promise I’ll show my light side here soon, to off-balance what’s happening…haha.