Be honest, are ENTPs really worth the praise they're getting? -- derail and a lesson is learned maybe??


#1

EDIT:
BTW I changed ownership of this contreversial post to myself!
To find out way it was so contreversial, read the following posts below (it mostly has to do with confusion of who was authoring the post and discussion of new community guidelines about it).


Here’s something an ENTP wrote about other ENTPs:

First off, not all ENTPs are unhealthy or dumb, I’m just generalizing this based off most of the ENTPs I’ve met (including others too since I discussed this with many people and realized that the experience is pretty common). Now read this if you will.

ENTPs are praised to be able to see ideas from multiple perspectives, and I do not doubt that since I’m an ENTP myself- so I do know possible answers to this pole, but they’re just based on how I view others with my personal Fe.

So here’s the deal-

I was skimming a forum on how ENTPs view Te (it was a while since I don’t really open or check such websites but here am I), I was hoping for answers such as them describing the function from their perspective, how do they believe they use it, and whatever related question comes to mind, what I found was just ENTPs bragging how messy or obnoxious they are, or how they hate their great aunt Mary for being so neat.

Based on that it can easily be concluded that ENTPs love talking about themselves, there’s no harm in using one’s personality as an example, but to completely neglect the question to just brag… really?

I’d understand if that’s Fe and they’re trying to please a crowd, but they’re straight up just shoving their experiences or random shitty facts (let it be made up) into people’s faces for no apparent reasons, I don’t get if that’s just poor Fe or Ne with no Ti behind it.

And let me emphasize on the Ti part, ENTPs love debating and that’s nice, they’re very curious and open minded when it comes to new ideas, but their connections can be really poor and random it’s hard to detect literally any functions beside Ne (this part is obviously just an exaggeration)(the others are obviously/probably present though), again that may relate to Fe but I’m not entirely sure since I don’t see much connections other than attention seeking and the joy of pissing others off. They’d just hear a statement, get the ideas, pick their favorite if not all of them and shove it all down everyone’s throats without any real goal in mind.

So in short-

  1. ENTPs seem to use themselves as an example for pretty much everything and especially for bragging or when unrelated
  2. I’d say it seems like a constant Ne Fe loop
  3. Why… just why D:<
  4. What are your experiences with ENTPs, and if you are an ENTP yourself, then how do you view this?

#2


#3

thevegancannibal (formerly known as supernocturnal) is suspended for a period of 14 days because it looks like this user has an intent to troll rather than act in good faith within and towards the Stellar Maze community.

This thread may be used to discuss this issue to see what the community thinks and what may evolve as community guidelines based on this recent behavior on the part of supernocturnal (now thevegancannibal), who has either assumed another identity or handed over his account to another person, but that whatever the case, clearly shows signs of not acting in good faith.

This is not OK with me. This forum is a place for honest discussion and inquiry.


#4

I think it’s a good idea to keep account ownership consistent. Super, if aother user is a real human person why not make her an account? Otherwise it just feels like a really odd exercise. Hard enough knowing who is behind the usernames when the person behind them remains consistent.


#9

I don’t feel it’s acceptable to allow another person to take over an existing account in order to post here.

At least Super was upfront about this, but I agree that this is not in the spirit of good faith we’ve managed to so far maintain in this community (unlike every other online community I’ve belonged to!)

Of course, there’s nothing to stop a member giving access to another person without telling us, but the change in writing style and content would make this pretty obvious after a while. Most of the regular contributors here have been quite open with sharing personal details from time to time (including yours truly), and this not only serves to verify a user’s identity, but also allows us to build relationships based on mutual trust and honesty.

I suspect that Super is doing this in order to help and assist his friends or family by giving them access to the collective wisdom of this community. I would also be more than happy for him to rejoin once his suspension is over, as he’s been a positive and valued contributor to date.


#13

Here’s my take on it.

  • I don’t this was trolling. Her post is biased but she clearly wants to engage in discourse.
  • The situation with Super allowing someone else to use his account is rather strange, but not all that inconceivable. First, Super was upfront about it. Sure, she could have made her own account. He could have given her an introduction. There’s multitude of ways this could go about… but I don’t think he put that MUCH thought it in. It was probably a simple exchange. “Hey, can I use your account since you’re quitting?” “Sure” (Especially if it’s his daughter.)
  • Now there was no clear guidelines about whether someone can give someone else their account. I don’t think this is an issue of privacy as it is an issue of trust. “Good faith” as Blake puts it. Personally, I think 14 days is harsh, but I understand. Something must set precedent. However, I think a 48hr ban is far more than enough.
  • Also this is Blake’s forum. He can do whatever he wants. I don’t think that should ever be up for debate. However, the guidelines and rules are very lax. This might have worked before, but there will need to be more structure if there is growth. Just sayin’

@Johnnyoh, No one is going to report you or get rid of your posts. That’s not how this forum operates. I’m not speaking for the community. This is merely an observation. Free speech is extremely important, especially on this site. It’s a place for “say whatever you want.”

Also, no one is getting kicked out. It’s a temporary ban. If Super wants, he can send Blake an email, explaining the situation and requesting the ban be lifted. Everyone here is rather reasonable.

As for deleting every post from Super… I don’t really know the terms. I know people can delete their own post within 24hr. Or I suppose a mod can delete posts at any time. However, asking for EVERY post to be deleted is ridiculous. Unless there is a simple button for it, no one is going to sift through every possible thread. Also, this is the internet. Super is a very smart and intelligent guy. When you choose of your volition to participate, you should know… Nothing on the internet is gone forever.

Since you said you’re personal friends with Super, I hope you can relay what people are saying. No one wants Super gone nor is there any contempt towards anyone, it’s just uncomfortable and confusing. I think that’s a reasonable position.


#16

We’re all on the same page here, it seems. A bit confused and uncomfortable with the situation, but more than happy to move past it and restore normal relations.

I can’t speak for the other regulars here, but for me this community has become like a little family in many ways. Maybe it’s an INFJ thing, but I don’t need to have met someone in person to consider them a friend. What matters more to me is the level of rapport and trust I’ve established with another person, and that doesn’t require physical proximity. I have already told Super that I consider him as a friend and someone who I respect and even admire.

It’s a communication issue at the end of the day, so if @Johnnyoh could convey that back to Super I would be grateful. I’m a fully trained NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) practitioner, which is a type of practical, evidence-based psychology. NLP is one of the most profoundly useful and powerful disciplines I’ve ever come across; it is especially good for understanding communication (and the many ways in which miscommunications occur).

NLP has this to say about communication:

The meaning of your communication is not simply what you intend, but also the response you get

This simple statement explains how even the simplest of communications between people can go badly astray and lead to unintended negative consequences.

For example, I’m engaging in a little light-hearted banter with a work colleague, but when I try to crack a joke with her she suddenly gets all defensive and angrily snaps back at me with a sharp comment.

My natural reaction might be to tell her she’s being oversensitive or lacks a sense of humour; after all it was only a harmless little joke! Or I could go the other direction and assume that I badly muffed the joke and over-apologise in a cringingly humble manner.

But if I suspend judgement and instead consider her response as simply information, then my intention or delivery becomes irrevelant - somehow the message she received from me has upset or annoyed her in some way.

Maybe she misheard me, or I unintentionally touched on a sensitive matter, or there’s something else going on - I have no way of knowing what caused her to react in that way - but the fact is my communication has gone astray and upset her instead of cheering her up.

Once I recognise that, I can attempt to find out why, by saying something like: “I can see that my comment has upset you somehow, I’m very sorry, that wasn’t my intent!”

This acknowledges both her emotional response and my original intent in a more neutral fashion, and allows us to hopefully move on.

This is my very long-winded way of saying to Super that the fact that a number of us reacted with confusion or suspicion or concern meant that somehow his actions conveyed the wrong message. And in return, we now hear that Super has become really upset by our reaction and is threatening to delete all traces of his existence from the forum. That would be a real shame, as not only would we never find out what was really going on, but would lose a valued friend and contributor.


#17

This is very interesting!

Previously I’d only heard NLP briefly described as “like hypnosis” which I’m gathering is a woeful characterisation. What you’re talking about sounds more like an application of things like transaction analysis and systems theory, models which I’m familiar with but haven’t found many ways of operationalising.

Is there a text or two you’d recommend for starting to get the hang of NLP in theory and practice?


#18

I’ll get back to you with some recommendations. There are quite a few good websites with free articles as well, but it pays to be selective as there are so many crap ones out there as well!

And yes, hypnosis is just one small part of the wider field that NLP covers. The founders of NLP became highly disillusioned with conventional psychological and psychiatric models and therapeutic techniques for helping people overcome mental and emotional disorders which, at best, can be painstakingly slow (and therefore both tedious and expensive) and, at worst, are completely ineffective.

So instead they decided to move away from conventional psychological theory and accepted wisdom in favour of an empirical, evidence-based approach. In other words, they went out and actually listened to real, living people, giving them the necessary space and encouragement to tell their own stories of success and failure, of joy and despair.

They were particularly interested in exploring the specifics of how our minds make sense of reality and create our internal experiences, thoughts, moods, ideas, beliefs, values and imagined scenarios. They were also seeking a better understanding of the broad range of cognitive tools humans employ to achieve our goals or apply our skills or create a specific outcome.

By focussing on how instead of why questions, they were able to develop a coherent set of fundamental psychological principles and a wide range of practical and effective tools for helping people to overcome long-standing problems and traumas, and also to achieve our goals and increase our overall well-being and sense of purpose and spiritual meaning to levels that were previously unimaginable. The three tiny letters “NLP” hardly does justice to the vaste scope and immense power of this underrated and undervalued alternative psychology.

NLP covers a broad range of subject areas to help raise awareness and increase understanding of ourselves and others, and a set of practical and proven techniques to help people heal and grow. Here are a few areas in which NLP excels:

How real people actually make sense of the world using internal representations (mental images/sounds/feelings etc) and how small individual differences can create very different outcomes.

How to recognise when language gets abstracted away from actual reality and what to do about it.

How different personality types selectively filter perceptions and make judgements using a specific set of criteria known as metaprograms.

How to effectively and safely communicate with the unconscious mind (including hypnotic techniques).

A detailed understanding of how the brain makes use of highly structured cognitive strategies to create specific outcomes (such as behaviours, emotional states, communications etc). This makes it possible to create different outcomes by changing certain key aspects of the mental strategies, and is a powerful and highly effective means for helping people change unhelpful patterns (eg. phobias, compulsions, limiting beliefs etc); or to become highly proficient at a skill or competency by simply modelling people who already have a winning strategy.


#19

As a suggestion, maybe: @Blake

  • Changing usernames should either go through admin, or be allowed one time in a 6 month period (or other fixed duration). Especially if members grow… it’s an unnecessary confusion.
  • Need to add to guidelines for suspension, for example, “Accounts not transferable” should now be a guideline.
  • Maybe have levels/degrees of suspension? I.e. start with 2-3 days and then increase for repeat offence? I make this suggestion as this is ultimately, a paid forum. (unless the suspension does not affect the subscription days?)

It’s up to you, of course.

As far as this case is concerned:

Handing over account (or pretending to)… was all not in good faith/taste. There were several openings/questions in the Intro thread for him to clarify what he’s doing, but he chose not to. So call of suspension seems fine. But it’s been strange overall, we have often seen Super’s generosity on the forum, even paying for others, so it’s been a sudden shift.


#20

Looks like super and his couple of friends really botched up their transition! lol

Just to clear things up a bit, they are all different people, but super’s friends seem to be young, so that manner probably shows in their first few posts. I think super’s gonna super, so he will be more or less fine.
What happened was that super was supposed to take a hiatus from MBTI, but he had a compulsion to say something so he signed up again for another month, but after saying what he wanted, felt bad he had all this “extra subscription” left over as a waste, so he was giving the subscription/access to the account to someone else until it expired again.

Super was just being cheeky. When the other user was first introduced, I was gonna make a joke and say something like:
“Daughter? Much like Zeus’ daughter Athena who was birthed fully formed from his cracked open head?? lol” half implying that she did sound made up by the intro, but I thought better of it and just let things continue as normal while I observed their behavior lol. I know I said this from the beginning, but super’s actions will always come off a bit shady even if you guys didn’t think so at first. It’s just the way he does stuff intentionally or not, and he always ends up getting yelled at or in trouble for it lol.
And Johnnyoh… enfp gonna enfp… fight weird moral battles from the getgo, get yelled at for crossing the line.

I’m not sure what the final decisions will be after the suspension period, but I do think name changes would break the way this forum works, so we should probably not allow changes on whim. 2-3 days suspensions are nothing. Haha. I like week+ bans when it’s clear violations, but I otherwise like throwing people in the Purgatory pit for minor stuff.


#21

You’re like a wise, old man - but, more attractive.


#22

Thanks for the update, @Prax

This is pretty much what I’d already intuited, based on Super’s previous generosity towards others. And from a type perspective it’s highly entertaining, given that EXTPs are temperamentally programmed to test any Judging system of rules to the limit and beyond!


#23

Lmao Supernokturnal. What a character.


#24

Just to answer the OP initial question, which I feel has been overlooked:

yes.


#25

I didn’t realise people praised ENTPs.


#26

You know, I do think that the original intent of the OP is justified by the way that ENTPs are praised online; yes, as an ENTP, I do feel like I get undue praise and basically people give me free passes on everything all the time.

I think that ENTP is harder for people to criticize, and harder to pin shit to, so that’s probably why they end up getting praised. And I think that basically, ENTP weaknesses are less consequential online than they are in real life.

So, especially for young people who may not have gotten past like, hating the only ISTJ they ever met or whatever, or who may have prematurely written off certain types, who think they understand ENTJ because of one boss or whatever, theres basically a good chance of not hating the ENTP they know.

And if an ENTP basically feels kinda harmless, and yet seems smart, why not throw them some treats here and there and watch them do a trick? I think that is sort of the online MBTI world’s treatment of ENTP.

I will say though that also, I think that I’m increasingly a believer in Blake’s characterization of ENTP as “not existing” and as a “planetarium,” particularly when triggered by the potency of presumed existence inherent in, say, INFJ Fi id. I think INFJ cycling through Ni depths, Fe playtime, Fi id, dumb Ti stuff, basically causes in an ENTP who is attached to that INFJ a compulsion to start zooming around the universe of ideas and lighting shit up, a kind of distraction that might not be distraction, sort of a, “look-up-here, and hey, stop with the believing you exist so fucking hard” which can be probably pretty refreshing to INFJs on a Fi train or in some kind of discomforting Ni/Ti loop. And so I am increasingly thinking that there are reasons for the INFJ and maybe other sad people personality types (haha it occurs to me there may be no other Sad People Personality Type, by comparison) to appreciate and to praise the ENTP PRECISELY AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

So MAYBE the praise I am arguing (to you Rumdawg, though in agreement with the OP) exists is not in fact undue but due.

Treat time?