Can we talk about bible? and everything else. (not religion)


#1

hi everyone on this forum and those who are reading.
as if you already know, I like to quote scriptures from the bible.
now, I don’t discredit other books like Quran and tripitakas and such. I just don’t know about those books.
but for me personally, bible has given me balanced view of life and many practical things that works for me and everyone I helped.

I’m not religious. as you can obviously see. I talk about almost everything possible without filter.

i use the Bible to guide me and others to live a happier life. better lives. and smarter lives.

I’m not here to convert anyone into Christianity.
this is NOT a religious topic. and I don’t belong in any form of religion. I just want to share practical wisdom.
and no I’m not gonna preach to you.

so, do me a favor if you will.
I want to test my knowledge and share information.
please ask me questions.
anything. from relationships, sex, marriage, working, friendship, whatever it may be.
even life and death.
or even homosexuality, polygamy, cheating, prostitution, porn, masturbation, whatever.
depression, anxiety, sorrow, anything.

trust me. you won’t be disappointed and I won’t answer like a typical religious people.

religion is what made the Bible into ugly distasteful thing.
it does NOT give ANYONE a license to judge.
it’s a tool. helpful tool. like mbti.
just like how mbti can be used to judge people, so can the bible. but I like to use it as a practical tool.

people quote other people. other philosophers.
other books, novesl, movies, music lyrics.

but if you quote bible, it makes people go
’Ugh What a Jesus freak ’

i want to change that aspect/perception about the bible.

why? is it because I secretly want you to become a Christian?
no.
I don’t have a secret intention.
I just really wanna share what helped me get through life.

so. Ask ahead!

I’ll start with something that was so profound. to me. personally.

i was a violent fighter when I was young.
so many ‘righteous’ people told me to walk away from fights. and be the bigger person.
but it never made me feel like a “bigger person” .
those ‘righteous people’ Would try and reassure me that even though I don’t feel that way, I was the bigger person at the end of the day. bullshit.
I never truly believed it in my heart. and it never made me feel like a bigger person to walk away.

i came across a scripture where Jesus said, I’m paraphrasing,
“if someone slaps you on your left cheek, turn the other cheek and let them hit you on the other cheek”
(Matthew 5:39)

that shit hit me so hard. to my chest.
it was the most manliest, masculine, coolest advice I’ve ever heard. it was super empowering.
it meant a lot to me.
it didn’t tell me to walk away.
it was saying I should let them hit me, and turn the other cheek to signal that I’m stronger than them, because I’m not scared to get hit by them.
that scripture motivated me to be physically stronger so I can take hits all day.
at this point in my life, I enjoy getting hit. I trained myself to a point where I feel confident enough to “turn the other cheek”

one time someone pissed me off, and I said
"hit me. please. I just want you to hit me like five times"
and they looked at me weird and intimidated. because nobody says that. they hesitate.
and I smiled at them, calmly asked them again,
"no, seriously. I want you to hit me as many times as you can. and hard as you can. and I promise I won’t hit you back. unless you let me"
and trust me. I really meant it. I wasn’t trying to scare them intentionally.
but it scares the shit out of people. and they don’t mess with me again. they rather respect the hell out of me. usually men of course.

and I appreciate that advice from Jesus so much. like holy shucks. such a genius advice.

so much wisdom from that quote.
he didn’t say “let them beat you up” or "take hits and do nothing"
he said “TURN” the other cheek.
like "here you go, make it even, you gotta hit this side too"
that shit is so gangsta.

and the cool thing is. it actually works.
of course, you have to ‘prepare’ to turn the other cheek. it takes mental and physical strength to do that. and you actually feel strong about it.
walking away is not. that’s avoiding trouble. which can seem smart. but it doesn’t make any strong impression on the offender.
turning the other cheek, that makes a very strong impression on the offender.
I’ve done it many times. Trust me.
and if you really think about it, it makes sense.

so. That’s one of many that helped me in life.


#2

Interesting story and it rings bona fide. I’ve wondered how many Christians really believe or find meaning in bible and religious teachings vs. doing it for the social aspects or being raised in a tradition they never questioned. 15 years ago I might have broken out atheist arguments, but let’s just talk about it. I’ve enjoyed talking to some esoteric Christians and now think it can be a deep and authentic path. What are your spiritual practices- regular prayer, bible reading, works, church attendance? Any mystic experiences? Do you identify with any denomination?

Specifically as to bible, what do you think of Paul and his writings? Is he ENFJ? What’s your favorite book of bible? I like Ecclesiastes and James, has been much time since I read it or gave it much consideration although I did research it quite a bit in the past.

As far as your application example, are there times where you would fight back? How far does the metaphor go? I get impression you’re still up for a regular argument. The passage goes on to say something about love your enemies, if someone tries to take your coat give him your shoes too, love those who insult or persecute you.


#3

yes! great questions!
thanks!

yes, i wonder that too.
but as for me, i made it my personal faith. and that’s what the bible tells me to do too.
Jesus said "if two or three of you gather together in my name, my spirit will be there amongst you,"
the word two or three is important. he is stressing the smaller amount.
he could’ve said two,three OR more.
so does that mean his spirit is not there if there are more people than 3?
not neccessarily.
but i can’t ignore the fact that he said two or three.
and that aspect makes things personal, and not traditional.[quote=“geneva, post:2, topic:235”]
What are your spiritual practices- regular prayer, bible reading, works, church attendance?
[/quote]

i don’t have routines. i don’t ‘practice’ it.
i do stuff because i want to.
i don’t pray closing my eyes. i don’t put my hands together. i don’t neccessarily look up or down.
i don’t get on my knees. i don’t always say "dear God, or dear Father"
i don’t pray before meals.

but, i don’t disagree with people that do. i just don’t do the ‘routine’ prayers. or at any specific given time.
i just thank God when i feel like it.

i kinda ‘talk’ to him as if he is the guidance, and i seek the practical wisdom written in the bible.

i just personally don’t believe in pray and do nothing.

i guess that’s because i’m an ESTP. i need to be doing things. not just talking.

if other people wants to pray for hours, that’s completely okay. i’m sure God is listening and will help in different ways.

i read the bible when i want. to reference something. but not neccessarily everyday.
i try to think about the practical application everyday.

bible itself doesn’t say to read it everyday. but it does talk about daily ‘meditation’.
it says to keep his words close to your heart.
some people in the back in the time didn’t have access to the physical bible.
they had to go to the synagogues or temples and ‘listen’ to it.
and they couldn’t request like “hey! can you read me proverbs chapter 5!”

when it comes to ‘works’. i try to love my neighbor. whether i know them or not.
the key word i that i try. means i fail to do sometimes. hahah

i don’t ‘attend’ church.
again, the term ‘church’, or ecclesia, is what Jesus said, two or three in his name. not a physical building
Jesus even told Samaritan woman that there will be time where people can worship and praise God wherever they please, whether it is in the mountain or the temple. it doesn’t matter what location.
so if i am with my wife, on the same topic with same spirit, then that is my ‘church attendance’.
scripturally, nothing wrong with that.
religious people might disagree. but that’s okay. they can do what they want.

i don’t identify with any ‘denomination’. i call that a religion.
i don’t believe in a religion.

i don’t believe that God created a religion, nor did Jesus.

when i read about Jesus, he did a lot of ‘untraditional’ thing at his times.
he broke a lot of religious rules. but he never sinned.

and that’s the christian liberty he brought to the world. not being tied to the religious tradition.[quote=“geneva, post:2, topic:235”]
Specifically as to bible, what do you think of Paul and his writings? Is he ENFJ?
[/quote]

i question this sometimes too.
although many believe that all scriptures are inspired by the holy spirit, well.
just because it’s ‘inspired’, it doesn’t mean it’s 100% right either.

because, where are other scriptures? why did they only pick 66 ancient scrolls?
what gave them the authority to call those 66 books the bible?
i don’t neccessarily agree or disagree with their choice.
but i’m open to other scriptures.

but i do agree most with Paul’s writings. and i must not ignore his background.
he was a very smart man. and his background is very crazy. comes from very traditional background.
so his style of writing comes off more regulated and strict than Jesus’s teachings.
but they’re not neccessarily wrong.
he just words it in a way that sounds a tad bit ‘religious’.

Paul seems like a rigid ExTJ to me. i’ll tell you why i came to that conclusion.
a few things.

he was the leader of the christian killers.
the style of his writing. it comes off more black and white than shades of gray.
so that gives me Te impression.
his unbreakable confidence.
him fighting with fellow believers.
calling out apostle Peter in his wrongdoing. and exposing him bluntly.
this man is constantly moving. like a bulldozer.

and like i said, unlike Jesus, he seems to have problem understanding personal perspectives and emotional aspects of things.
hence, coming off more rigid and hardcore.

so. no way is he an ENFJ. no way.

since i stress practical wisdom so much, my favorites are proverbs, ecclesiastes, and james also!
hahahah, it seems like we’re on the same page with those!
i love Ecclesiates, it’s like the wisdom coming from old wise man.
and James, straight to the point, and hits the core!

i also like the four Gospels because they have Jesus’s direct teachings. and i learn from his practical wisdom. and his actions i study.

i like Romans and Hebrews, they are really deep.
and i like Paul’s other writings too. i think he may be ENTJ because there is the ‘N’ feel to him when i read his writings. i have to really think about what he’s trying to say.

hahaha, yes! i don’t always apply what i know. then i’d be perfect!

i believe we all have very weak/strong tendencies that makes us wanna do something that’s not beneficial,
but it’s better to get some sort of control over it.

and the interpretation is up to anyone. i don’t draw a line. Jesus didn’t draw a line.

but i took the advice more literal than anything.

because it is. it was about physical assault. not about mental abuse.

but being able to control physical assault goes hand in hand with being able to control the situation.
so it’s sort of win-win if you can actually manage to do it.

and of course, not everyone i ‘argue with’ is going to want to punch me.
there’s different advice for that matter.

yes. freaking crazy right? but it teaches the oppressor something. creates a huge impression.
the act of giving something else comes from power. not from weakness.
and love is opposite of fear.
so if this is being done with fear, then it wasn’t executed correctly.
you just got robbed.

the key is to do this with love.

like, if someone asks me to buy them food, let’s say for example,

them: hey, could you spot me on McDonald? i’m so hungry. i just want some chicken nugget.
me: fuck no man! i’m gonna take you to a nice restaurant! and it’s on me. don’t pay me back!

see, if i just said “oh sure,” then it doesn’t leave the same impression as giving more than they asked for.

sometimes my mom asks me for money to borrow,
for example, if she asks me for $50, i’ll give her $80~$100 and say “it’s my gift for you. don’t have to pay me back mom”

so it gives her the impression of generosity and love.
she doesn’t have to feel burdened about paying back $50 she owe.

me willingly giving more makes me happy, and makes her happy. it’s a win win for all.

okay, but this scripture is talking about enemies, and i just mention friends and family.
well it can work for anybody.

and the word ‘enemy’ is not to be taken literally.
we don’t wanna create enemies just to show love, hahaha.

but in modern term, it’s kinda like ‘love the haters’.
NOT ‘fuck the haters’.

saying ‘fuck the haters’ is not cool. it’s a mask of strength with underlying weakness.

but showing love to the haters. now that’s some noble shit right there.

and these are practical advice.
just because you can’t do it, it doesn’t make someone wrong or bad.
and the advice is free. it can be taken or not.

Jesus didn’t have the attitude of ‘if you don’t do what i say, you’re wrong!’

it was more like ‘hey, i know what’s beneficial for you. i can make your life easier, and better. take these steps and apply them if your life, it’ll help. :)’

and the scripture says to not be a ‘teacher’.
and solomon says don’t be ‘too wise’, because that’s not gonna help.

so i’m here trying to ‘share’, not teach.

i’m try to be careful and not become a teacher. because i don’t want to be seen as a hypocrite. or a wise-guy. hahah

it’s more like ‘hey, i know this works for me, although i fail to do it many times, but since it works, why don’t you try it also? thought i’d share some helpful information!’


#4

Not ESTJ- he was pretty quick to overturn dietary laws and circumcision to gain mass appeal for the new religion, plus he was full of metaphors. There’s a really good case for ENTJ and he does have an abrasive tone, but I think he was pretty Fe savvy. He gained tremendous influence through charisma and appeal to the masses despite never having known Jesus. His letters are full of appeals to emotions and his vision for the church seems Fe to me- everyone should be in harmony and not disagree.

Have you read any Nag Hammadi gospels? [quote=“supernokturnal, post:3, topic:235”]
hahaha, yes! i don’t always apply what i know. then i’d be perfect!

i believe we all have very weak/strong tendencies that makes us wanna do something that’s not beneficial,but it’s better to get some sort of control over it.

and the interpretation is up to anyone. i don’t draw a line. Jesus didn’t draw a line.

but i took the advice more literal than anything.

because it is. it was about physical assault. not about mental abuse.

but being able to control physical assault goes hand in hand with being able to control the situation.so it’s sort of win-win if you can actually manage to do it.

and of course, not everyone i ‘argue with’ is going to want to punch me. there’s different advice for that matter.
[/quote]

Ok, let’s stick to literal interpretation of a punch in the face and turning the other cheek.
I prefer to turn the other cheek by pivoting to slip past their guard and send them tumbling, then calmly walk away to ponder the futility of conflict.
How would you apply biblical concept of turn the other cheek to domestic violence or someone being bullied?
There could be some bravado in neither cowering nor fighting back that might change the whole dynamic, then again it might not.

Jesus wasn’t consistently a pacifist either; he threw money changers out of the temple and cursed the fig tree.

I’m not totally against it, but see an immature outlook in petitionary prayer, the whole vending machine in the sky outlook. I prefer doing things too. I think sometimes people use prayer as a way to feel like they’re doing something to help instead of being practical. Sometimes it may help on an internal level, it can give people hope and comfort to think of others praying for them.

Respect for that, teachings of Jesus are a pretty virtuous philosophy, although lots of religious and cultural crap have become associated with it. I’m basically a pantheist/philosophical daoist with some shamanistic influence. I used to be rebellious and reactionary to Christian upbringing, but have come to see some truth and beauty in it too.


#5

i wonder if he developed it after being blinded by Jesus. hahaha

no, where can i? and what is it about?

wow, many questions and comments to answer!

yes. Jesus was not some passive guy.
but i still can’t help but to see the strength in ‘turning the other cheek’.

and he didn’t command it either.
not anyone can completely follow his advice and teachings.
that’s impossible.
in one scripture it says everyone fails, and nobody is righteous on earth.

so to answer the question about bullying, there isn’t a complete control of the bully.
but control of the situation, and how to handle it, is probably different.

the bible doesn’t give us how to get rid of evil in this world. because it exist, and God allows it to exist.

and bullying comes in so many different forms.

and it’s certain target that gets bullied too.

so, general practical application can be ‘standing up for yourself’.
with love. never forget love.

it shouldn’t be like “STAAAHHP IT!!!”

but staying calm, answering with respect and mild speech, turning the situation around with love.
the more you react, the more fun a bully gets to have.

but calm respectful confrontation is neccessary.

not just ignoring the bully and hating them from inside.

i can’t really think of any specific situation, but trying to feel compassion for the bully is one good way to diffuse the situation. because some bullies are bullied at home. or whatever problem they may have.

same goes with domestic violence. can’t say everything is the same.
what caused it? how it start? why did he use physical violence?
was it provoked? or was it out of his mental disability?

it’s hard to turn the other cheek with love when spouse is using domestic violence.
turning the other cheek, the key is love. again. i’m stressing love.
if there is fear, anger, or frustration, then the execution is futile.

so in this case, i don’t think turning the other cheek helps. rather, it may provoke the anger.

it takes two to tango. i don’t give any excuse to men’s physical violence.
but how did this all began?

was other things applied together? mild speech? respect? submissiveness?

such broad topic cannot be discussed simply because all situations are different.

i’ve seen/heard cases where men use domestic violence in their household.

women should physically stay away from the abuser.

there are no specific instructions but principle that can be applied freely. to see if it actually works or not.

it’s kind of like,
what does the bible say to do when someone shoots you with a gun in the stomach to rob you?

hahahaha. it’s not funny. but it’s just crazy.
so what practical principle can be applied?
well, obviously first call 911 or go to the hospital and get treated. that’s just common sense.

but bible kind of speaks of karma too. that God will punish them eventually.
because offender like that will carry negative energy with him, and something bad is bound to happen.

there are no specific instructions.
that was mosaic law.
mosaic law is what consisted specific instructions on laws and regulation.

the new law, there is only love.
love your God, and love your neighbor.

there are no ‘correct’ ways of handling the situation.

just because we fail to love the bully or spouse that beats us, it doesn’t make us evil.

so, speaking of turning the other cheek. it is up to interpretation, and situational.
it doesn’t have to be applied all the time. but it works. with love.

yes. i completely agree with what you are saying.
it seems selfish and lazy to me. to ME.
but to others who are desperate, i cannot speak for them.
God does not fix problems. according to the bible, this time we live is not where God interferes and fix mankind’s problem. we just have to deal with it.

yes, i think prayers can do many things. like you mentioned, comfort and emotional support and stuff like that.
and for some people who worries too much can pray about it and get their mind cleared. it’s kinda like venting. to the higher being.

woah. that sounds complicating. how do you explain your belief?[quote=“geneva, post:4, topic:235”]
I used to be rebellious and reactionary to Christian upbringing, but have come to see some truth and beauty in it too.
[/quote]

i sympathize. it’s corrupt in many ways. the pure form of Christianity is almost nowhere to be found. but Jesus did make a prophecy about it. his message was love. not new traditional religion.

the beauty of freewill and advice is that there is no one correct way of dealing with a situation.
we learn from mistake and maybe do better next time.
and suffering in this world does make people turn to higher being and ask for change or peace or whatsoever we need.

but these sufferings are caused by people. and the evil that’s influencing it.

i just wonder what’s really going to happen.
how all this will end. or will it end? how soon will it end?
or will it keep going?

i wish everyone can really enjoy living life doing what they want to do.
not working 8+ hours a day to pay bills and get by.
only handful of people in this world is doing what they really enjoy.
money controls this world.
everyone is basically a slave of money.
we have to earn money, to live, to eat, to do almost anything.

and it’s accurate to what the bible said because it said you only serve one of two master,
God, or money.

why didn’t it say satan? or devil? why money?

because the devil controls money.

that’s why some people sell their soul to the devil to become more rich and famous.

remember? satan brought Jesus on top of the mountain and told Jesus to bow down to him, and Satan said he will give everything in the world.
it wasn’t a false flaunt. he really could do it. because Jesus didn’t say “no you can’t. you don’t own this place” he didn’t say that.

Jesus knows that Satan is the king of this world now.

but talking about selling soul to the devill sounds like conspiracy theory too… even though it really isn’t…

well. i used to sell my soul to the demons when i was younger. so i can gain super crazy violent strength to beat up people.
and it worked. trust me, it really worked.
i felt it, and when i looked in the mirror, i saw something else in my eyes and it wasn’t me. it was scary.

i have many experiences of seeing and feeling demonic presence, and it’s not fun.

if there’s a shadow, then that means there is a source of light. and that light is God.


#6

A cache early papyri found from non-canonized early Christian traditions including gnosticism which was suppressed a couple centuries after Jesus and most of their writings destroyed. You can find it free online.

It could be complicated but I’ll try to keep simple. I think there’s divinity in all of nature. Darkness as well as light is needed for life, things grow, change, and cycle. I do qigong and energy cultivation practices and do find that energy flows in everything and that there’s an element of skill and synchronicity in moving through the universe. Wisdom and compassion lead to an awareness of the oneness of all things.

Back to your topic.

Do you think Devil is an anthropomorphic being?
How about heaven and hell and afterlife?
Hypothetically, if it was definitely proven (I don’t know how, it’s hypothetical) that there’s no afterlife, do you still think Christian teachings would be worthwhile.


#7

oh shit… that sounds crazy. i must check it out though. when i have a lot of free time.

wow… this is interesting. and this doesn’t seem like a religious practice to me. rather a spiritual exercise.

i did qi exercise before. and tried to release it out of me and feel it in my hand like a ball. and i felt it.
it was really cool. but i felt no practical use of it. so i just do real exercise. hahah

yes. some say it’s an energy or an idea.
but God was directly talking to ‘satan’ in book of job.
and Jesus was directly tested by satan also.
but there are many fallen angels. they are not the chief of the evil, but evil angels, or demons.
but demons i think are more specifically the mixed breed.
during noah’s days, when fallen angel had sex with human women, and bunch of mixed nephilims.
regardless what demons are, they are real. and i believe some people can sign some kind of spiritual contract with them and do some dark magic. there are some videos on youtube. not the fake ones of course.

this is not a simple answer. but i’ll answer it simply.
144,000 will rule as kings with Jesus in the new millenial,
and those 144000 will be men, women, children, old, young, gay, bi, transexual, whatever orientation, many different backgroiunds and race.
why? so they can sympathize with all human kinds from all types of background.

so 144,000 will be in heaven. or in a spiritual form. idk if they will appear later in physical form like other angels did. that’s unknown.

and there are ‘great multitude’ of people that will also reside in heavenly kingdom. doing heavenly, work, whatever that may be. these are the ones that gave up their earthly life and desires to be in heaven with God.

and there will be EVERYONE on earth that will resurrect after the battle of armageddon.
yes. everyone.
everyone will resurrect and have about 1000 years to prove themselves and deserve second chance.
and they CAN die during this 1000 years. it’s stated in the scriptures that dying at age 100 will be like an infant.
people will not naturally be perfect, they still have freewill and they have to strive for perfection and it’s their choice.
they won’t be influenced by the satan and demon anymore, but their own sinful nature.
they will work towards maturity, and will be tested in the last judgment.

right now, if you die, you will just be dead. nothing. you don’t just randomly shoot up to heaven. or hell.
your energy will be with the universe. with God. but no consciousness.

hell. hades. gehenna.

hades, literally means under ground.
when people die. they become soil, underground. so we all go to hades. or hell, if you wish to call it.
but no fiery eternal torment.
so when people die. they are basically unconscious. deep sleep.
unless you’re part of the 144000 or the great multitude that have heavenly desire.

gehenna, used to be real place in Hebrew times.
it was a place where you burn trash with fire.
gehenna is a symbolic place. eternal death. this is after the last judgment.
they won’t be tormented forever burning in fiery hell. they will just be cut off forever.

again, right now, everybody’s life has second chance in the new millenial,
so why try to be a good person now?
because why not. it’s beneficial, and everyone who died will resurrect with same personality and character they died with.
they have more things to work on if they died wicked.

that’s, basically the short simplified answer.

yes and no.
what a freaking good question Geneva. omg.
this is giving me braingasm.

well. first of all yes because it stll works.
the practical side that is. the psychological aspect and just how to live a happier life.
why not live happy while you’re alive?
why not live a smart life while you’re alive? why not enjoy wife in a healthy way without causing so much trouble?
edit: oh … i meant life. not wife. but… wife too :smiley:

and by no, no in a way that, life itself is meaningless if our life is only 65~100 years.
i don’t even count after 80 because you’re physically limited. and lack of desires.
i think i would live more of a destructive life seeking constant excitement til i die.
unhealthy excitement. like basically being addicted to everything possible.
kinda like. ‘fuck it, let’s just party every day til i die’ type of life.
and try to experience every fucking thing in the world. fuck everything.
like literally fuck everything. every living being.
just be a successful fucker and just die. hahahah

but no. since it’s not ‘definitely proven’, i don’t want to live an anti-peace immoral life.


#8

oh, and to add, i do think it’s still worthwhile to other people as well.

and i’m talking about the TRUE Christian teachings. NOT a religious teaching.

because, Christian teaching is all about love, harmony, peace, joy, goodness, patience, mildness, respect, and other good qualities that people like.

if these teachings are not being taught and practiced,

the world will be just like the Noah’s days.
as scripture states, everyone will be thinking about bad things constantly, people will be violent and killing and stealing and raping and doing just evil things. it would be chaotic.
i’d rather live in a world of peace than chaos.

chaotic world existed before. that’s why the whole world died in the flood. if the flood didn’t happen, then everyone will eventually just kill each other and the world will be an impossible place to live.


#9

I’m not at all religious, spiritual but not religious sounds lame and new age-y, but pretty much. That’s a pretty common exercise. Form I do looks sort of like tai chi but for energy not martial application. I’ve done martial arts enough to not get punched in the face too.

Oh, Job, since it’s sort of a Jungian forum, Jung psychoanalyzed God. I found a summary. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.557.4772&rep=rep1&type=pdf
I haven’t read the book, but have read some of Jung’s books. If you really want some heavy reading, dive into Jung- MBTI/personality theory is froth on the ocean.

Yep, not just trash, props on knowing weird stuff.

Ok, so Apocalypse/Revelation is literal. When/what’s taking so long? Jesus seemed to suggest end times were near.

How about the beginning? Is creation story/Garden of Eden literal?

Does God really care about my sex life?


#10

no, i love this. this is my type of faith!

oh yeah?! what have you practiced?

oh, here’s a joke,

INFJ: what kind of artist are you?
ESTP: a martrial Artist.

haha…

for an INTJ, you have a lot of, sensory it seems like. even the way you talk.
it doesn’t sound too complicating like a ‘typical’ Ni dom.
i wonder if it’s your husband that influnced you? hence being the ISTP.

oh that’s a must-read. i’ll get on this.

hahaha, i’m not into ‘heavy’ reading. but i do like to research. or refine my ‘Ti’.
i’m definitely into this field. but i gotta do my Se activities first, and then Ti.
play first, study later.
but if it’s interesting enough, i can Ti all dayyyy.[quote=“geneva, post:9, topic:235”]
When/what’s taking so long? Jesus seemed to suggest end times were near.
[/quote]

oh, great quetions!

well. ‘near’ is not a defined, or accurately measured.
i think it’s subjective to God. but,
some say Jesus used the word near to give people the impression that it’s happening in everyone’s lives,
or to install some sort of urgency.

well, many things have to take place.

in end of Matthews, there are a lot of crazy prophecies that many Bible scholars have hard time interpreting.

like sun being darkened, stars falling. sky doing weird things.
and the great deception.
i believe 99% of the earth’s population don’t know how they’re going to be deceived.

i tie those with the ‘conspiracy theories’

like weather modification, and blue beam project, and Mandela effect, and such.

whether they are just conspiracy or not, the deception is definitely happening, and weird stuff is happening also,

and if the earth really is flat… then, that’s a huge part of great deception, haha
but i’m tired to debating flat earth…
it’s like believing that the earth is round is same thing as having faith.
nobody proved it. they think it was proved.
no, it was taught, just like every other freaking religion.

anyways. i’m leaning towards being flat. leaning. not definite. but leaning towards it.

there have to be a global persecution for 'religious people’
it’s happening in certain countries now. but it has to be global. or…world-wide.

and those 144000 i mentioned, the number have to filled in order to start the battle of Armageddon.

many people believe that number is not filled yet. and that some are still living on earth now.

well, if they die, from religious persecution, the number will be filled. it might be complete, i don’t know.

but i go with thinking the number is probably not complete yet.

because 144000. that’s a very lofty position. divine position. but have to live a pretty lowly earthly lifestyle. fair enough eh?

but to answer your questions. it’s slowly happening. but not all the events took place.

the scripture speaks of times where the world will be like Noah’s days. or worse.

world doesn’t seem that chaotic right now. it’s REALLY bad in other places. like south america seems like scary place to live.
but other places seem too peaceful.

and even if it’s really bad in other places, it has to be worse. i don’t know how bad it’s gonna be. but it’s gonna be bad.

bad enough that it makes people cry for peace.

oh, fun fact. well. it’s an observation,
but i’ve seen so many ‘non-believers’ pray to God when crazy things happen in their lives.
it’s like all of sudden they turn to this ‘higher being’ they did not believe at first. or decided not to believe.
i know people do everything to survive, but how did this random faith just appear? haha
interesting huh. i don’t know if everyone does that, but i’ve seen many. too many.

anyways.

and it seems subjectively distant for me. idk. maybe 10 more years? or more?

i know some religion think it’s happening very very soon. but… realistically…

i don’t know. i can’t predict time. but it’s not like within couple of years.
that seems illogical, knowing many things didn’t even take place yet.[quote=“geneva, post:9, topic:235”]
How about the beginning? Is creation story/Garden of Eden literal?
[/quote]

the order of creation is definitely accurate.
but ‘science’, A.K.A. knowledge, or people who think they know stuff, who they call themselves scientist, might think different. like big bang and evolution and such… well duh.
but i just wanna state that fact because i don’t want to seem oblivious and seem like only know one side of the story.

there are two different creation believers.
some say the 6 days are not literal days, but each day means a ‘period of time’ so it can be billions of years for that matter.
but of course some believe that 6 days are literal 6 days, 24 hours, and it wouldn’t be weird to believe that God can do things in short time.

6 literal days make sense in flat-earth model.
in globe earth model, 6 literal days wouldn’t make sense because ‘scientist’ measure the speed of light and how long it takes the lights from stars to reach the earth and it’s freaking crazy amount of number so.

it depends on what you believe.

but creation story makes more sense ‘reading it’ when you think the earth is flat. like, it just flows.
it ‘can’ make sense on round earth, but you have to interpret things differently.
but that’s what religious doctrines are, they make stuff up and say these scriptures support it.
well, how about other scriptures that DOESN’T?
anyways.

but disregarding the time, the order of creation is accurate, and accurate science supports it as well.

some say the ‘Big Bang’ is when God said ‘let there be light’ BOOM.

but… it’s up to interpretation.

Garden of Eden, what do you mean by literal?

yes, i do believe it’s more literal and not all symbolic.

Eve was deceived by the serpent, maybe because she was created a little later after Adam and she was inexperienced and didn’t get the direct information from God? but only heard from Adam?

the scripture says Adam wasn’t deceived, but he wanted to please his wife, so he took the fruit.

and if you look at our human nature, not ALL, but it portrays that women are drawn to ‘material possession’ or ‘power’, and men are drawn to ‘women’, and it’s one of their biggest weakness.

like this is probably a bad stereotype, but there are sayings, that ‘money gets the women’, and ‘men’s biggest weakness is women’

but also kind of true. men’s power and position is lost mostly because of women.

and why do ‘rich people’ get bunch of good looking women around them? because money can buy that stuff.

it’s not a 100% fact. but it’s true in many cases.

like women typically like to shop more than men. the endless desire. did it come from Eve? perhaps.

and how do you seduce women?
like a serpent.
smooth talk, slick talk.

seriously though, every time i teach a guy how to seduce women, i feel like a devil.
mixing some truth with deceit. like a sweet poison.

anyhow.

that doesn’t ‘prove’ that Garden of Eden story happened, but i do believe it happened.
it makes sense to me.

and i think nobody knows what Adam and Eve looked like.

they were not just some white people, that most people depict as.

they probably had crazy DNA though, being able to create multiple different looks and ‘ethnicity’ or whatever.

hahaha, what do you mean?

like what do you mean by ‘care’?

like, is he happy that you’re having great sex? or is he judging the way you have sex?

in proverbs, there is a scripture telling men to be intoxicated by their wife’s breast.

as far as a ‘suggestion’ goes… hahaha

and Paul speaks of sex between marriage couple, saying either one doesn’t have the ‘right’ to reject sex to their partner because your body is not just yours in this marriage lifestyle.
but also it says you can’t just force sex upon your marriage mate either.

it seems contradicting but he’s speaking of balance, and the willingness to give it up when the spouse wants it.
of course mutual desire is the best,

but because of how men and women are, sometimes the timing can be slightly off on when they wanna have sex.

but other than that, it doesn’t say you can’t do Kama Sutra or crazy position or use toys and substance or whatever it may be.

i look at it this way,
God created all these animals. and they are all unique in its own way.
their sex is kind of basic,
but if you observe monkey, they have some crazy sex positions. i don’t know if you ever watched a video of it on some documentary.

but anyways, i don’t know if that answers your question about God caring about sex. … or your sex life

and you know how the bible exclusive tie sex and marriage together.
well not ALL cases. but God wants sex to happen in marriage. and only in marriage.

and i do see many practical wisdom in that.

the exclusive devotion. and why are people so obssessed with sex?
because sex is more than just a physical act.

and there are so many types of ‘bonding’ hormones that are created when having sex.

of course, i don’t judge nor condemn just because someone wants to have sex with multiple people,

but i see much more benefit having sex with one person.

it gets better.

like during sex, some sort of energy and information is being exchanged between two soul.

and almost each time it improves, if it’s communicated properly that is.

and coming from a guy who’ve had quite a few experience, i think it may speak louder to most men.

i am happy to be exclusive to my wife.

the advice from the bible doesn’t restrict me in any sense. i see the truth and the practical wisdom behind it all.

and understanding psychology, it makes sense why it’s beneficial.


#11

@geneva

oh, and this is a weird request, and anybody else can do this too,

but if you can, i want you to try and make me doubt my beliefs.

and it’s not too difficult, all you have to do it find logical fallacies in my beliefs.

i changed religion a few times and left religion altogether because none of them make 100% sense.

but many religion and spiritual practices all have some truth to it.

and i want to doubt, because doubting is my motivating factor to keep researching.

but you don’t have to. these questions maybe will lead me to start questioning my own belief.


#12

Isn’t belief beyond logic?


#13

Hahaha I mean, in a way.

but I meant if it doesn’t make sense. like if there’s logical inconsistencies, then that belief has some problem.
like if there is contraction within beliefs, or with other universal truth, then I’d be likely to dispose the idea.

like predestination and freewill contradict with each other.
predestination is backed up only a few times but freewill is always supported and it makes sense.
then I’ll dispose predestination.


#14

2nd dan shorin-ryu karate, 3rd kyu aikido, a little Krav Maga and tai chi. Martial arts helped me a lot with body awareness and mindfulness (Se). I was an utter klutz as a kid, now I can do coordinated things when I’m focused, still do some distracted blunders though. Liked your joke.

I don’t get it, as a child in church it seemed like conspiracy theory that everyone seriously believed, but am curious why it resonates with people.

Are you sure she was created later? Chapter before that states he (they?) created man and woman at the same time.

Sex stereotypes could be a sort of demon, at least MBTI provides a more diverse set of boxes.

Better to marry then to burn, but celibacy is best per Paul.

Truth, quoting this one because I want to gold star and underline it.

I might go for a spin on the merry-go-round, but if you expect me to jump through hoops I’ll be sliding down my wormhole back to planet Nibiru.


#15

holy smug. that is a lot of martrial art experiences!

you know what i think though, i think body and mind is very connected.
haha, ‘very’ connected. i just think they’re so connected to each other.

i say this because i said you sound like an SP type, or seem to have Se in your speech.
idk if i said it before, but that’s how i feel everytime i read your comments.

and you’re like an expert at Se. which ‘was’ your inferior function.

therefore, i think when you become ‘one’ with your body, it creates new pathways and stimuli in the brain that makes you think like/with an Se too.

like, if i was a singer, and a painter, and meditated for hours, i probably will develop some NF and think like and sound like one too.

because it’s within us. we are created by God, and we have his DNA somewhere in our blood.

it’s like when a child is born fatherless, and he/she can never see the father, and believe that he never existed, but that DNA is passed down and he or she will sometimes think and act like the father they never had.

that’s just one of my analogy.

oh yes.
so, here is the thing, you know how in movies, or books, the stories sometimes are not always told chronologically.
like chapter 1 tells you that humankind was created.
and chapter 2 tells you the process of this creation.
like God saw that man was alone, and it wasn’t good, so he made a woman for him.

another corny joke.

why is it called “woman”?
because when Adam woke up and saw Eve,
Adam : Woah man! :heart_eyes_cat:

anyways.

but i’m glad you pointed that out, because, God created man and woman in 6th day, and i don’t know if Adam felt lonely and God decided to create Eve within 24 hours, or days or years later, i don’t know.

some think Eve was created years after Adam was naming animals and whatnot.

but, it’s not too crazy to believe that it happened within a 24 hour period.

so, if 24 hours is the correct answer, then i guess Eve had the same opportunity to be ‘wise’.

yeah i agree. but i can’t ignore the fact that women and men are wired differently.
despite the whole MBTI thing.

for example, ENTP male comes off way more immature than ENTP female.
i guess ‘immature’ is subjective, but you know what i mean.
ENTP female seems more ‘stable’.

hahaha, well i think women would have hard time dealing with Paul.

i agree with the first phrase. i love being married. it’s better than dating.
if dating is Lamborghini. marriage is like Rolls Royce.[quote=“geneva, post:14, topic:235”]
I might go for a spin on the merry-go-round, but if you expect me to jump through hoops I’ll be sliding down my wormhole back to planet Nibiru.
[/quote]

:dizzy_face:???

omg. i’m so dumb.

i had to ask my wife what this meant.

me: what the heck does she mean??!?!
wifey : she’s saying she’ll give it a try, but if you have a high expectation, then she’s going to take a step back.


#16

Is it the one true path? Is a devout Buddhist or virtuous atheist doomed to hell unless they accept Jesus as savior?


#17

@geneva
No. remember I said there’s no “hell”?

hades means grave. not fiery torment for soul.
I know, it’s like people who grew up in church background have to dispose the idea of hell and people being condemned to hell, what a sad thing.

hell is part of fear tactic religion use to keep people controlled. fear is the best tool to control people.

remember ebola? that was funny.

bible speaks of “rumors of war”.
meaning, the actual war might not be happening, but only rumors.
I guess cold war was one of them.

and everyone gets a second chance no matter what they believe.

we are all confused. no one has the whole truth.

but I’m hoping that the new millennial kingdom, there will be whole truth and everything will be exposed, or revealed.

and hypothetically speaking, if Jesus is the one that rules because he paid for our ransom, and being able to have eternal life because of it, and if that ‘truth’ becomes abundant and proved, then I don’t see why some people wouldn’t accept that.
but you have to understand, it’s not going to be some religion that’s going to be established.

Paul says that even those who don’t believe that God exist, basically speaking of atheist, they still have consciousness and morals that they live by.
because we are somehow all born with our own conscience.

you know, like Erika mentioned, being good. like the universal good. being kind and loving.

and according to the scriptures, only people that are “doomed” is someone who willingly reject the truth after they fully believes it. But I think that’s rare.

i say rare because I believe nobody have the whole truth on this earth now.

p. s. typing on the phone is difficult


#18

@geneva
the irony of Christian religion is that Jesus originally came to destroy the law and create freedom but after Constantinople took over and adopted Christianity, it became a religion again. Catholic and all that stuff. they’re like the strongest religious empire.
but that was prophesied, saying the wolf-like people will enter and oppress the sheep-like people.

and there’s so called “protestants” that broke out of catholicism. but ironically they started their own religion.

it’s like people just can’t get out of this “community based beliefs”

the whole world is mostly “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude. an idea which Jesus clearly say to reject.

he said do not judge ANYone.
he didn’t say “don’t judge EXCEPT…”


#19

Constantine
Yes, much politics and controversy in early days of Christianity, really ever since. Impossible to know what Jesus taught or even if he definitely existed. Based on what’s in the bible it seems like most church traditions missed the point, ironic that the Lord’s Prayer is said out loud in church as a rote scripted prayer when Jesus gave it as an example of heartfelt, extemporaneous prayer to say instead of that type.

If you’re interested in intellectual and logical arguments, I’ve probably forgotten more than I remember, not about to dust them off. Lots in Christianity borrowed from pagans, Egyptians, Sumerians. It was a common myth in ancient world of a wounded king or leader who lays down his life for the common good then is resurrected or a successor arises. Same basic story as the Matrix or Harry Potter. That’s not to say Jesus was just another story, could be he was the fulfillment of that archetype. It’s some powerful symbology and if it inspires and resonates with you maybe you shouldn’t worry too much about technicalities. I wonder if you really believe the literal Adam and Eve, Revelation, flat earth bits or if you mostly enjoy the controversial, shit-disturbing postulation of them. I don’t agree with those, but don’t see any harm in your spin on it either, maybe even some crazy wisdom.
Namaste, best wishes on your path, and remember Jesus loves you. Krishna and Haile Selassie do too.


#20

exactly!! it’s so crazy.

i remember this one foreign exchange student i met, we became close friends, was hanging out, and i invited him to my church (when i was attending one), and the whole congregation started praying out loud after reading Matthew Chapter 6 about how to pray,
and one verse said “6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.”

and all these people around us was screaming Jesus and praying out loud.

and i turned to my friend and said "isn’t this crazy? they JUST read the verse on how to pray, and doing the exact opposite"
him: yeah, why are they doing that? that’s insane!
me: i don’t know. but all i know is that they’re not doing what they just read. i’m getting out of here man. let’s go and get some drink., but before i go, LORD!!! WHY ARE THEY PRAYING OUT LOUD AFTER THEY JUST READ SAYING WE SHOULD PRAY IN PRIVATE!!!

hahahaha

yeah i’ve actually did some research on this too, and i’ve seen someone comparing Jesus with Horus the egyptian god, and i was so fascinated, but the history was inaccurate, so i just disposed it.

but many cultures have their own story of the flood and the 8 people on the ark.

did you know 船 <- a “ship” in Chinese is broken down to “Eight, boat, and mouth(person)” ?

ahhahaah no it’s not to be controversial, even though it may sound like it.

i like having answers to people’s questions whether it is 100% truth or not.

because i myself ask these questions.

and although people might not accept my answers, it makes sense to me, and it may make sense to other people.

but i just want to be consistent with my logic.

i care about consistency. if something is unreasonable with my answer and someone can tell me, then i’m not scared to dispose it and adapt to/adopt a new one if i find one.
but they have to convince me enough with their own answer.
and be able to back up their own logic with hundreds of questions i might throw at them.

i can ask life’s difficult questions to people, and if their answers are contradicting, then i just can’t accept it.

Shalom! and Namaste!

it was great speaking with you and i appreciate your participation on these questions you’ve asked!