Dealing With Your Id (and With People Who Have Your Type as Their Id)


#1

Bruh. Broski. Bro. Brouhaha. Brokowski.

What it is, man?

Duuude. Dude. Dūd. You feel?

Oh yeah. Fersure, male. Fersure.

The id in a nutshell.

So yes, today we have a special guest - the id. What is the id?

Well, you all know that already.

But, there are questions that we still have to address.

How much should I indulge the id? How much should I ignore it? How much should I try to grasp at it? Is there a way I can address my id once and for all and never have to worry or think about it ever again?

I realize now how blinded I was by the id, having had a short fling with my own id and realizing that this was really not the way to go. I was trying to compensate for something I could never ever hope to embody due to the nature of my psyche. And I was repressing where my real strengths lay - my dominant and auxiliary functions. It was an existence of complete and utter compromise: wasting my time doing what I would never be good at, and not devoting this time to what I was good at. And I hate compromise.

So yes, I threw away philosophy for sports, longboarding, and electric guitar. And in return I got crutches. Pretty sweet deal, right?

Wrong. After delving deep down into the nethers of my id, I realized that there was, quite plainly and simply, nothing to it. It does not utterly transfix me as it once did. When I encounter people who have my id as their type, I do not crumble into a fit of jealousy. Let them be good at what they’re good at. And I’ll just continue doing what I’m good at.

An extremely helpful realization was the fact that everyone has an id, no exception. So while I may feel huge deficits in certain areas, every other type feels these deficits in other areas. And hey, there is a type that feels a huge deficit in the areas that are my natural strengths. We never really do appreciate what we have.

Now, I’m back on my highland, where I can see everything clearly and calmly. And down below I can see my id, like an old friend. I’m wondering if I should try to bring this old friend up to the top of the mountain where I am, so we can remember the memories we had together and maybe even do more things together. He can provide perspective on the parts of my psyche that I used to completely ignore. Maybe he can provide a coloration for my future adventures. But this old friend will never be in the pilot’s seat again - I’m flying the plane from now on.

While we’re on the topic, what about the converse (and not the Vans) - dealing with people who have your type as their id? If the id represents what a given type can never hope to embody, then this does not bode well for cross-id interactions. It implies that whichever type has your type as their id will never be able to understand you. Yet they feel like they can, and will continuously try to seek out your company to compensate for what they don’t have. Doesn’t sound very pleasing, does it?

Questions, questions, questions. Answers only lead to more questions.

And that’s a beautiful thing.


#2

Yeah knowing we are ALL somewhat in the same boat with some non-functional part of ourselves has been a great great medicine for the shame.
How to deal with someone whose Id is your type? Don’t hide your insight. I think the medicine hurts but helps. But keep it to a minimum. Like if your child was developing a bad lying habit you would deal with it but still love and treat them respectfully. You wouldn’t constantly shine a spotlight on their lying problem. It would wound them. On the other hand they will appreciate the guidance? You can show pitfalls. Ground yourself? Like how you have to when you are a parent? Kind of interesting when the person in question is old enough to be your parent:)


#3

Thanks for responding! :slight_smile:

I like the metaphor of trying to deal with your child’s lying problem, without shining a spotlight on it. There’s a reason why they have a lying problem, just as every type tries to compensate for their id. And this reason points to something very delicate and painful. Can’t just shine a spotlight on that and try to get rid of it. Like when someone’s trying to compensate for deep-seated insecurities.


#4

I have always been up and close to an ISFJ.

I mean, she’s my mom!

I don’t know how everyone interprets people who has their type as their Id. I only found out about MBTI last year, so I wasn’t even thinking of some of the stuff she did along the lines of me being an INFP and her being an ISFJ. But I do now, so let’s talk about it!

I noticed my mom was always pragmatically negative when I was young. Like, she would always realistically tell me the pros and cons of doing something, but I noticed that she always focused more on the negatives than the positives. I didn’t think about it too much. She was an adult, so being a kid, I just assumed she knew better than me. She also never really sugar coated anything for me. I grew up very quick as a kid. Despite this, she was a traditionalist. Bed times, no cursing, be polite, eat your vegetables. A real mother who definitely was hands on and protective of each of her children.

I saw in my birth chart that I had Moon opposition Pluto. For some reason, I feel like this may explain how she uses Fe to sometimes undermine or straight up manipulate me. I don’t know, kinda scary to think that some decisions I made in life could be do this, plus it’s so unconscious that I can’t even notice it when it may be happening. I always say that me and my mom have an unnaturally good relationship. I would like to think that the Moon-Pluto aspect manifests itself in a positive manner (Taurus Moon maybe helps clears this up?), but I don’t know, I think the Fi-Fe within the ISFJ makes them shady. Sometimes on accident, but probably on purpose a lot more times than you would suspect.

Now that I am older, I have noticed the Fi within my mother. We have a bit of a psychic connection, like sometimes we literally say what is on the other’s minds without any sort of prompting. In reference to this, I remember my mom was going on a super negative tangent, I literally was thinking about some article Blake had written. I remembered when he had talked about the nature of Fi id being negative, then she said, “I’m being negative, aren’t I?”. Yeah mom, you’ve been like that ever since I was born. Still love you though.

But yeah, I have never been bothered by her Fi id too much. It’s a bit jarring to see how Fi id manifests in my mom the exact way Blake said it would. Oh, wait. The only time I am annoyed by her Fi is when it comes for my Fi. Like, but the thing is her Fi is always negative. So when she bashes me with her Fi spewed through Fe, it’s really annoying. She thinks she’s helping me, maybe all moms do, but sometimes, they really aren’t.

She fights like how it is listed in the ISFJ article Blake had written. With the whole, you never notice how valuable they are to your life till they start taking things from you. It really is a pain, but my mom is a very headstrong person, so yeah, sometimes she is gonna say things should be one way and I’ll say it’ll be another. Than this whole “you don’t respect or appreciate me” narrative is written and I’m like, how is this fair? Cause I can’t truly stand up to you while maintaining my Fi ideal of what a mother-daughter relationship is, but at the same time, something in me can’t just go along to get along. Wish I could, but I came out an intuitive while everyone in my immediate family is an sensor. Can you say, “family pains?”.

Er, but advice for those who have met a type who has their type as their Id? I’d say go along to get along. I am able to justify doing this a lot, but in those cases when you can’t do this, be calm and let yourself be heard. Most people aren’t your family, so it shouldn’t even really matter if they subtly annoy cause of their Id. If that’s the case, why are you bothering with them? If your boss or professor ends up filling this scenario, you could probably do a couple of things. You can be empowered knowing that they have your type as their Id, and basically make a conscious decision to not let yourself get flustered by it. These two people have power over your money and grades, so make the decision that is gonna benefit you in the long run. But don’t play yourself, just be a cool cat. Then maybe get them by anonymously reporting them or really letting some truths be told when you evaluate them as a professor.

Find the silver lining. Everyone isn’t like you, and you aren’t like everyone else. Though I think most people can at least meet somewhere in the middle. Be flexible, dealing with your type in the Id can be a bit trying, but it’s possible. Truuuuust meeee.

Good luck!


#5

The person is literally my parent!

Plus they are headstrong. Noo, don’t bulldoze over me!

They would want my insight? There’s a thought. I usually am just quiet when my mom goes on one of her negative rants fueled by Fi id. It doesn’t bother me though, except when I am the topic of the rant. Then you know, problems galore.

Maybe I will let her know about my thoughts. I can’t say, that is new territory for sure.

Good idea, Lunar. I may report the result of this in the near future.


#6

That is tricky. I’ve noticed isfjs really benefit from recounting events to a 3rd party. They unload it and can let go easier that way. They recount the details then try to explain themselves and their part in it. Etc.

The id behavior I have seen is an appeal to being a victim to pull off some ulterior thing along with appearing to be doing it for your sake only. You have to go along or you are gonna look really mean. It is hard to know what to do in that situation…so actually I wonder if the way to deal with it is to pretend not to see it. If the isfj thinks you can’t see it how can it work? Dunno.


#7

@lunar

Oh yeah.

Well if I don’t somehow let her maintain the role she has given herself, then she simply won’t agree with me.

So what I’ve done all along is actually what I still should do? Lol, okay. That’s actually really fine.

:v:


#8

Argh, time for round #7589 with the INTP’s id and its insistence on throwing belligerent “truth bombs” from precisely where the person’s views are at their most cartoonish, ill-founded, and trauma-driven.

And this type is so very good at ramifying their projections, so that there is no response other than capitulation or great vigilant sneakiness because anything actually effective merely attracts their shadow and makes it worse. Whatever their issue is, they experience it as everyone else’s problem and interpret any attempts to deal with it tactfully or compassionately as being rooted in your inability to handle their truth (really you recognise that you mustn’t put your finger where they are at their most fragile). Or your lack of integrity or something. Prisons of binary, like their error-checking code has its ones and zeroes backwards.

Argh. I have ethical commitments to eat all of this and help the person as I can, but holy crap it’s frustrating.


#9

I am married to intp and gave up on winning any fights. I Have never thought of the insistence as an id thing. But yeah the usual thing is to present the other as wholly lacking logic of any kind. Which since I don’t have I often capitulate or start throwing more illogic…

With intp I used to think the Id thing is to start analyzing the other person psychologically which an intp can do sometimes.

Hmmm. So id of intp and infp is when they feel certain of something start proclaiming something.


#10

Huh. My mom and dad are INFP-INTP, so I am familiar with some of that dynamic. “I gave up on winning any fights” is word for word how my mom described it.

Logic is a neutral instrument, and with INTP it’s like the use of logic shades imperceptibly from competent and accurate executive function into deformed funhouse self-serving bizarro logic, around their id’s horror centres.

I think that psychoanalysing thing you describe is definitely a thing. Potentially accurate or at least unassailable. But never quite right, and always self-serving. And conversely they can’t stand to be analysed themselves. (I’m most familiar with my dad’s versions of this but the person I’m bitching about is actually my mother-in-law.)

With my mom and other INFPs that proclaiming behaviour seems much less intense and invested, more ordinary everyday stuff; when I’ve observed their deep id floundering around it’s more like the great yawning void of space, INTJ style I guess? Like “if I don’t look at it, really hard, it won’t turn into the StayPuft Marshmallow Man or whatever.”


#11

Maybe intp is invested due to greater emotional vulnerability. They have little Fi strength… Well actually some have more than others. But that is kind of a vulnerability. I don’t understand it very well but I think it must feel bad for them. And then Fe is used to deal with others rather than self. Can be a hot mess.


#12

You must be an expert on Ni id Stuart!


#13

Maybe intp is invested due to greater emotional vulnerability. They have
little Fi strength… Well actually some have more than others. But
that is kind of a vulnerability. I don’t understand it very well but I
think it must feel bad for them. And then Fe is used to deal with others
rather than self. Can be a hot mess.

That sounds right. Something upsets them-- there’s no Fi to make sense of it-- it must be a question of logic and truth-- other people are to blame for not assenting/anticipating-- they use Fe to make those people feel the blame-- shockingly that fails to solve anything.


#14

I certainly have inside acquaintance with it! I’m never sure how much objectivity I have though.

Recently two male friends of mine were roommates for a time, INFP and INTP, and for months I heard it worked and then it ended… apocalyptically. I found myself having to explain to people who cared about them how that might have happened, with the added difficulty that neither person really wanted to tell their story in more than general terms. Very sticky.


#15

@Kevin.K so your id is Spicoli?


#16

@Stuart

Beautifully articulated and perfectly captures the essence of this phenomenon.

Hahaha oh yeah…


#17

I like this thread. So funny. :3

I don’t think there is a real solution for INTP types going off the rails into Ni. I think the only way for INTJ and INFJ to deal with it is to shut them down. Which may not be exactly productive, since I think you are supposed to deflect and lead them to using their aux (suggest alternate what-ifs, have lighthearted fun and say "well I am EXPERIMENTING even if you think your logic is sound! :smiley: " – but it depends if any of you have the patience for that instead of snapping back.)

Behold conversation with friend on this very subject! However, I have cleaned this up a bit since when we talk, there’s a lot of gibberish/emoji involved lol:

friend: i think intp would out-argue infj, and infj would wince in being humbled and embarrassed, but also infj might win through Ni diggings, and then intp will be sad
prax: i think… what you have to do to intp is just be “you’re being stupid. i yam deciding this anyway. you go pout over there” and do whatever you want
friend: HAHAHAHAHAHA
prax: this is when intp scream that intj are mean and illogical
friend: "but i dun care about ur logic :3c "
friend: OH u know what infj would do? infj would just point out the stupidity/pettiness of what they’re arguing in the first place, then flounce off
prax: yeah hahah
friend: then probably get under their skin in some way. i’ve done that before HAHAHHA
prax: "you’re bad at this. you invest too much in stupid petty stuff. goodbye"
friend: a lot of the people online who hate me are intp!
prax: then intp probably have Fe-inferrior tantrum
friend: i remember arguing with one once and won (imo) by getting her to admit she was really just whining at me bc i hurt her feelings with a condescending tone at something stupid she said hahahhaha she then ran off and told a mutual friend how she hated me. :3

Because INTP has Ti dom, Ni id, if they wander into Ni-id territory, they will use Ti to make their logic seem “sound” and well-evidenced but it’s actually fairly petty or in the grand scheme of things ineffective/a useless endeavour to waste energy on. This probably triggers Ti-id gratings on INTJ a lot, and INTJ will often try to correct course with Ni (wrong move! for it plays back into INTP “Ti-Ni game”) or Te (better move, announce the pointlessness of this argument and tell them what you will do and execute that instead, and tell them to have a wait and see approach).
INFJ will have a harder time trying to fight fact against fact with INTP, but will probably be able to gain upper hand if taking a morality/ethical standpoint in gridlocks, so focus on Fe use.
I think in both cases of INTJ or INFJ trying to handle INTP in an id-state, the INTP will feel hurt because they will be made to feel incompetent or petty (even if this true, I guess it’s bad feelings lol). All you can do it hope they move on and offer to “play” with them again in whatever intellectual banter, and they may be good to go.

I think it is harder for INFP to “win” any kind of argument because INFP also have Ni-id and probably trip one another up with their own convictions, and if it’s powered by INFP’s Fi, INTP will accuse INFP of being emotionally irrational, where in this day and age is a good shutdown technique. I think the trick to to focus on Ne for both to bring levity to whatever Ni-id is being experienced so possibilities are opened and both become “liberated” instead of trapped in an argument cycle.


#18

Yeah I think infj has upper hand in infj-intp interaction. From my observations.


#19

Yes it feels bad for intp…and I really think that feeling bad is itself a difficult thing for intp. They want not to feel.


#20

@Prax

Extremely insightful. Thanks for responding, Prax!

I’m always impressed at how often you’re able to hit the nail on the head!