Helena Blavatsky – the only E8 ENFJ woman in Blake’s List – enjoys a good company of like-minded rakes:

Javier Bardem
Ludwig van Beethoven
Marlon Brando
Charles Bukowski
Johnny Cash
Ernesto “Che” Guevara
Vincent Gallo
Ernest Hemingway
Maynard James Keenan
Michael Madsen
Choi Min-sik
Viggo Mortensen
Elvis Presley
Benicio del Toro
Forest Whitaker

I’d like to add another. Ever heard of Rasputin?

I’m going to take a stab and say he was E8 ENTJ. He seemed to lust after power more than an ENFJ would, and his whole spiel on indulging in immorality to get closer to god seems to be inferior Fi to me. I could be wrong, but that’s just my two cents.

Another stab at Rasputin? Have mercy! :smiling_imp:

I think it’d be more likely that he was an INFJ with some heavy E8 subtype thing going on. I look at him and I see a dark NF. A true Russian mystic, in other words.

I think ENTJ would be more like Stalin. More cold-blooded and calculating. And Rasputin was anything but cold-blooded.

As for his manipulations for power, they seem very NF in character to me. And his Te choices were as bad as his Ni choices were good, one can argue.

Man, I’ve been pondering over Rasputin for a year or so, ever since I’ve watched that documentary.

And I’m still not completely sure.

Arguments for INFJ:

  • Very strong Ni. All those visions and foresights of his.
  • Inferior Se. Total lack of hygiene (he was known to smell like a goat).
  • Fucked up relationship with Fi. Id?

Arguments for ENFJ:

  • His overall choices & actions. He seems too “all-over-the-place” for an introvert. ENFJ continuum fits better.
  • Ni-Se axis projection (unless that can be explained by a Rising subtype). Those piercing eyes.

But him NT?
Don’t see it.

Those eyes for sure! They definitely have that Ni thing going on…
The reason I guessed ENTJ was because while reading the Wikipedia article on his life, I couldn’t help but be reminded of Aleister Crowley, in addition to those couple points I made above. And I just got acquainted with Blake’s list and saw Crowley under ENTJ.
But yeah, @Ignas, you probably know way more about Rasputin than I do, for sure.

And you probably know way more about Crowley than I do, so who knows. :grinning:

Gonna buy this book at some point and educate myself.

Anyway, ENxJ uncertainty is a classic thing.

Nice! I have yet to read that one myself

Do you mean distinguishing an ENFJ from an ENTJ?

Yes, but I’m probably exaggerating. I meant that these two types are called the “look-a-like” types in Socionics. That’s because they have the same “horizontal” (“projective”) Ni-Se axes.

The same would apply to INFJs-ISFJs (Fe-Ti axes), ISTPs-ISFPs (Se-Ni axes) and so on.

But that uncertaintly is rather fleeting, since it’s not that hard to sniff out whether a particular person’s functions revolve around the dominant “Sun” function of Te or Fe, Ni or Si, Fi or Ti, and so on.

I see this ENxJ confusion best reflected in the famous historical conquerors and dictators.

Let’s take Alexander the Great. I don’t see how a dude like that could be anybody else but ENFJ or ENTJ. Now as I’ve read a book on him, I think I know for certain that this dude was ENFJ. Like, totally.

But what about Caesar? I know nothing of his character. I’m leaning towards ENTJ in his case, but I’d have to read about him more to make sense.

Genghis Khan?

By the way, I think that the Japanese actor Tadanobu Asano who played Genghis Khan in this movie is E8 ENFJ.

My personal favorites with him are these two:

Very true. I don’t know an astounding amount of info about Alexander, but from what I know about him, it’s very easy to tell that he used Fe instead of Te. The vibes of these two functions are as different as black and white, at least to me. If I were to run into an ENFJ and ENTJ together, I’d be able to tell very quickly which one was which.

Genghis Khan seems to me to be ENTJ, based on his reputation as being generally cruel and cutthroat.

The others, I’m not too sure about.

Yeah, totally Fe dom! All his conquests are soaked in it. Similarly with Balzac. You can open practically any part of his biography, read a page or two, and be conviced on his type. That’s what I call being “all-over-the-place”. My ENFJ uncle is the same. :smiley:

Especially is Asia where he had his forces imitate the fighting style of the enemy. An ENTJ would stick to their own guns no matter what.

Would not underestimate ENTJ.

I think that’s a good call Ignas! Rasputin has an Ni stare for sure! He has that ‘peering out’ thing that I associate with extroverts. The shutters over the eyes are open!

I keep looking at photos of him and something feels off, like the whole story isn’t being told. What an odd impression, I don’t know if I’m getting it from his eyes or the overall vibe of the pictures…

I kind of feel like, what I’m seeing of him is an aesthetic. Maybe Ni aux? It’s like, the projection he’s putting out isn’t fully lived in. There’s this crafted look he has, it doesn’t feel completely genuine though. It’s like a put-on, dunno what the real thing is though.

There’s not this feeling of alignment between who he is and how he looks, maybe astro chart could explain this, but I dunno, I don’t believe him in some way because subconsciously, I think he’s portraying himself to be something he’s not…

Agh, why must I have such a strange impression! I don’t know if I’m right, but it’s just the vibe I’m getting.

I think ENFJ, because he’s selling a look or a role. He never smiles in pictures, and I don’t get a dour impression from him despite him wearing black, it just seem like an aesthetic he has going on. On a surface level it’s believable, but in that way you can feel a vibe or feel something deeper, it’s not completely genuine it seems.

The story of him dying is fucking wild, jeez! Who’s that committed to killing someone like, it’s kind of entertaining in a morbid way!

Yes, it seems he is aware of the power of that destablising effect he has on people and using it to the max. Now I do think INFJs can be scary too, but I’m not sure it’s always that intentional?
He is pretty scary and reminds me of Charles Manson (ENFJ), Salvador Dali (not sure what the consensus is on him but I’d say ENFJ) and Jack Nicholson (ENTJ). All three seemed to enjoy making people very uncomfortable. And of the three, I must say Jack Nicholson is the least scary actually. Talk about ENFJ being monsters! It’s almost as ENTJ knows he’s freaking you out, but visibly laughing about it at the same time, while ENFJ remains dead serious until the end and it’s only minutes later when they snap out of it, release the tension and put the charming smile back on that you can catch your breath again. Breathe out, it’s over. :slight_smile:
He’s a very intriguing character, for sure! I think I would like to research him more and even though I’m leaning towards ENFJ, I could see why INFJ is still a strong possibility.

Speaking of E8 ENFJ men, here’s one that didn’t immediately register as ENFJ until it hit me a few months ago and after seeing this 1974 movie, ‘Going Places’ (Les Valseuses): Gérard Depardieu!

It’s easier to see it when looking at his younger pictures.
Is it just me or there’s a tendency among E8 ENFJ men to overindulge in tertiary Se, visible especially when they reach a later stage of life? It makes me mistake it for Se id…

Nur! You said it so much better than I could.

Yes! I thought they had the same stare, I couldn’t recall his type from memory though and ended up getting sidetracked when I was looking up his type. I thought INFJ or ENFJ upon first impression. Thanks for the clarity!

Love this! I don’t have much experience with ENTJs or ENFJs, so the insight is great!

Fuck yeah, great post!

Euuh, thaanks, but… please take it with a grain of salt. :grinning:
I don’t know if it’s a general thing or just that any ENTJ seems less freaky next to Charles Manson haha

Actually, I really do think you’re right Nur.

I tend to see ENTJs as fools, as much as they can be intimidating. The Ne-id implicates ENTJs having no reverence towards anything, so long as they themselves are the rule. Everything else is grounds for them to literally shit on and fuck up. Te dom, Ne-id. :smiley:

One way I try to discriminate between NTs and NFs is just how serious the individual takes things. I think being a romantic in temperament will make one more liable to taking certain values seriously, perhaps too seriously…whereas NTs, due to general detachment from human feelings, are more likely to take an objective view…meaning they do not take things to heart that much. This is how I discriminate between INTJs and INFJs, for example, and like you said, ENTJs vs ENFJs. I definitely think what you are describing about the latter two is correct. ENTJs have a lot of fun intimidating people; you can see it. My father, who is INTJ, has instinctively picked this up in his workplace and instructed me to look into the eyes of a screaming ENTJ. They are laughing in their eyes, he said. So no need to be scared. Stand firm. That’s how you deal with them.

I think Rade Šerbedžija is E8 ENFJ.

He plays the main character in this Macedonian masterpiece movie with the utterly moving soundtrack:

I’m thinking my boy Jackson belongs here…