ENFJ Enneatype 8 Women


#1

Whenever ENFJ women are described here, most of them seem to be enneatype 3s.

Any examples of type 8 ENFJ women? What do they look like? What are the key distinguishing factors between type 8 ENFJ females and their type 3 counterparts?


#2

Maybe Helena Bonham Carter.


#3

I’ve been pretty fascinated by this as well. It seems like most ENFJ women who are popping up are type 3s.

Okay so here goes some thoughts:
Blake describes Fe: Love as power, so I think all ENFJs have this as a core motive. So I’m going to postulate ENFJ type 8s are more towards domination and power, while ENFJ type 3s are softer and moves towards admiration and attention.

There’s something explicit dark about ENFJ type 8s. They have a primordial feeling of possession, destruction and consumption. ENFJS type 8 are straight up sexy, while ENFJ type 3 are oddly sexy?

Anjelica Huston as Morticia Addams. She just really embodies the role, the gloomy and terrifying, but still seductive. You want it, but you don’t want to mess with it.

Or Patti Smith

While ENFJ type 3s are more… commercial? Lol. When I look at ENFJ type 3s, I think hmm, sexy? Yes? I don’t know, it’s weird. I feel weird. Like Kate Bush. Or Bjork. They’re dreamier, softer.


Anyways, I’ve been secretly hoping Blake would do a type within type article, especially for INTJs. but ENFJ vs ENFJ would be cool too.


#4

Nice! I think you’re right about the differences between type 3s and type8s. I suppose females in general are discouraged from embodying type 8 values/ideals which are the most phallic of all the enneatype points. That raw, visceral aggression…power…Perhaps a lot of ENFJ women channel all that energy into something a bit more feminine, kind of palatable for everybody and especially for males, those weakling males who can’t handle women stronger and more powerful than them…

But I’m not sure about the straight-up sexy vs. the oddly sexy dichotomy, or maybe it’s the wording that I’m not getting. I feel like most “ENFJ” celebrity types I’ve encountered all seem straight-up sexy to me, with a proportion of them exhibiting that additional “odd touch.” I feel like the “oddness” could really work for either enneatypes. Type 8s being more brave in embodying the avant garde, and Type 3s trying to mix-n-match pop sensibility with the avant garde. Perhaps both could come out as “odd” if they choose to venture into all that “out-there” art, but then type 3 would exhibit, yes, a “softer” touch.

Maybe one example of a type 8 ENFJ woman…

Grace Jones? Now she is a pop-icon, model, actress, singer, entertainer, etc, etc, but her persona is actually pretty fucking scary. She’s sexy but she seems beyond human…more like a God, not in that gaga fan-girl way (OMG QUEEN BEY), but like shit-I’m-scared-she-could-end-my-life kind of way.

Siouxsie Sioux - A more borderline ENFJ type 8 woman, but likely type 3. “Goth icon” with a lot of pop sensibility but seems a lot less feminine and more like dominant-as-hell. She really could be type 3 with a Te-Gemini astrological influence. With lots of type 8ish badassery and hatred for bullshit.

image

An interview, skip to 2:50 and watch onwards. She seems like a mix between type 3 and 8. I can’t tell.

If she doesn’t like an interviewer and thinks him to be an asshole…watch how impolite she is live on TV.

On second thought both Grace and Siouxsie could just be type 3s with Te-Gemini sun (both of them have it).

I think Patti Smith could be type 8, but I don’t really know her music that well. For some reason that made me lazily type PJ Harvey as type 8.

And @wegendes, Helena Bonham Carter is type 3 according to Blake. It’s interesting how her look is very similar to Siouxsie (Siouxsie came first though!), but I think she’s much more personable and softer in appeal.


#5

Oh, I see. I thought of her and then I saw in a comment of the ENFJ 8 article of her as such, I guess he changed his mind (once I saw him typing Björk as a type 8 too).


#6

Haha probably :slight_smile: Personally I like the word odd or bizarre. My train of thought is usually “hmm, that’s odd, I don’t know why I find that sexy… but I do. This makes me uncomfortable, in a good way? Good problems?”

Side note: awesome explanation/insights as always.

What do you think of Taylor Swift being an ENFJ type 3?


#7

:slight_smile: Thank you, but don’t put too much stock in what I say :stuck_out_tongue: It is only a speculation!

I do get what you mean by the “oddly sexy” thing now. It’s like that dash of ENTP-id spice, hehe!

Hmmmmm. So I remember when Blake first typed Taylor Swift as an ENFJ type 3, I completely lost my mind and bitched out in the ESFJ article on the website, I think.

I thought she was an ISFJ or something, but the reasoning behind it was kinda poor. Basically it amounted to: “I hate Taylor Swift. She’s not ENFJ.” :stuck_out_tongue:

Over time, I’ve grown to accept her ENFJ typing. It seems to fit her better than any other type. Why? Because whenever people mention Taylor Swift around me, I instinctively cry out, “She’s EVIL. She’s fucking Satan!” And my ENTP buddy agrees in unison with me. We have a special name for her, but probably I shouldn’t post it on the Internet. evil laugh I mean, I’m not sayin’ ENFJs are evil, but like…if the impression I’m getting is that she’s kinda dark and witchy, and her “too-nice-to-be-true” persona strikes me as 100% false…then I’m gonna say ENFJ.

I could see ENFP, though. And ISFJ in the early beginnings of her career.

Why she might not be an ENFJ. Correct me if I’m wrong, but she really lacks true charisma and presence that an ENXJ would give out. Sure, she looks like a “dolly” on music videos, but it’s like…you know…comin’ from the big record companies. It’s all so highly superficial and all made up, micromanaged and perfectly crafted by clever ISFJs and so on and so forth. And most pop stars these days are groomed to have that “Se-look” and play the overly-reused “Good Girl Gone Bad” theme throughout their artistic career. So perhaps Taylor Swift is playing an ENFJ but is not really ENFJ. On stage, her live performances are gawd-awful (sorry, Taylor-hatred comin’ out again!!). She can’t sing. She can’t dance. And she has zero real presence, that convincing vibe, that conviction an ENFJ can bring out. Basically, I’m saying that she has no talent as a stage performer. (Sorry if I made you cry, Taylor Swift fans!!! I just don’t like her) She has an awkward, goofy charm though…so she could be ENFP, or playing up her ENFJ Ne-id.

But maybe this has all changed since I last saw her. I was surprised by her “Look What You Made Me Do” music video, because there she had a lot more presence than usual, and her dancing was very Pop Perfection with all these like, half-naked male dancers prancing around her. I could see more “Se” here, and it’s true. Like she’s so fucking lean. What happened to baby-faced Taylor? I’m not saying slim but soft like some types of ENFPs, but yes “mean” and “lean” according to Blake. I see bone and muscle.

Anyways. Perhaps it’s her astrological background that gives her a misleading aura of conservatism and “niceness.” My instinctive reaction is “vomit,” this is all fake! And that she’s evil, ready to perform voodoo on her enemies. So, OK. She’s ENFJ.


#8

Thank you for sharing these videos!

While watching these interviews she Siouxsie kept remind me of someone someone who?!!!

It was this little girl!

I used to wonder how @Blake thought she was enfj but I totally see it now.


#9

Can you tell me how you see it, @lunar?

And did Blake tell you this in private conversation or can you direct me to page/link where he typed her? Because I’d like to see that.


#10

It’s something mesmerizing in the way of viewing the person being talked to. I’m not sure I could pin it further. But a sideways glancing (that is gripping and powerful??). Even the smiling. A tug of war between accomodating and toying?
He typed the little one in the psychopath thread.

Edit: the little one is tough and straightforward at same time of how she is eyeing her doctor.


#11

You know what @lunar? I thought of exactly the same thing when I saw that Siouxsie Sioux interview (the one where she’s wearing blue contact lens). Her eyes looked very similar to that little “child of rage” hehe. I never really noticed the eye movements, but just the general vibe of their eyes was just SO similar. I find that a lot of ENFJs have this wide open eye look. Not the puppy-dog kind of wide open look (like some ENFPs), but these eyes that are maximally open, looking out into the entire field of the world whilst also seeing into themselves, this space, this, agh, let’s say this “inner world.” And this is really just at resting state. Perhaps this is reflecting engagement of Ne and Ni, oscillating back and forth, well synchronized and in harmony!

I think the eye movements you’re talking about are probably right. And one thing’s for sure. Both of them sure have a hell of a lot of confidence and charisma. They project this assuredness of being. Like the whole world is at their feet. And it’s all theirs.


#12

Yeah. I think what strikes me about enfjs is how they can do this WHILE extroverting… if you know what I mean?
Who can do that WHILE carrying on a conversation.
So they’ve got this penetration of sorts, as well as command. Simultaneous. How how how do they


#13

Yeppp, quite striking. It looks all so relaxed to be honest, very very natural.

The other thing is that this is particularly easy to see in light-eyed ENFJs. Because of course, it’s a lot easier to see everything in light-coloured eyes in general. I can really only think of blue or greenish eyed ENFJs that gave me that “dead-ringer” eye-vibe look. Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct comes to mind (also very reminiscent of Siouxsie and “Child of Rage” expressions - I never watched the movie by the way, but I saw her audition tape for Basic Instinct on YouTube - It’s like a textbook page on ENFJs hehe), Emma Stone, and of course Erika :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Exactly.


#15

I like this description and crane’s deity description. Very cool. Enfjs are just fun to watch. They have something public about them they teach something.


#16

Helena Blavatsky is the only woman I’m virtually certain is a enneatype 8 ENFJ.

While the performing arts is rife with enneatype 3 ENFJ women, the enneagram type 8 ENFJ women is not likely to to be in this domain due to the masculine energy that the type 8 enneapoint confers.

Rather, the 8 gives a solid, thick build with immense accreted power, while the type 3 gives more flashy, expressive, and open energy that is released in bursts.

Type 8 gathers and marshals forces to build into one titanic effort.

Type 3 ENFJs are much lighter by comparison. Venus types. With a twist. Definitely on the feminine side. Many enneatype 3 ENFJ men are androgynous looking. Think glam rock. And the women of this type are often some of the most beautiful women in the world, but often with some avant-garde twist, which makes them even more fascinating and alluring.

ENFJ type 8 woman are going to be considered much more masculine and unsexy by the average standards on such. They have more of a genuine masculine quality that is not at all Venusian, but rather Plutonian. Some heavy shit. These women don’t have that light Venusian energy of the type 3 ENFJ that makes the latter type so hot and attractive to the average male, even if albeit a bit weird and offbeat.

ENFJ type 8 women are genuinely masculine and often not attractive to the male population at large. Quite the opposite.

It’d be like if Beethoven was a woman or something.

And these are dominant women truly. I think you often see them in managerial positions in large concerns. They have the ability to marshal huge forces and hold it all together.

These are gonna be more the directors of the performers rather than the performers themselves.

Physiologically, enneagram type 8 people are often very noticeable for a very thick build. Kinda blocky. Squarish.

Type 3 ENFJ women have a much more mobile, lithe, acrobatic quality in their build. They can be thin and mobile (yet, still sexy) or more voluptious and curvy, but they ain’t blocky. Quite the opposite - curvy and lithe and graceful.

Type 8 ENFJs look like they were born to have some weight on them. They have a weighty solid brick-like quality to them. Just huge built-up power…that is often not expressed except in titanic sorts of efforts.

Think Beethoven’s big symphonies, which are often hailed as “huge, titanic efforts of the will” and all that. Just huge marshaling of energies. And a huge and slow buildup of those energies.

Blavatsky’s works are like this. The Secret Doctrine was a huge and monumental undertaking in an attempt to synthesize the esoteric traditions into one massive universal cosmology.

Think Stanley Kubrick and his films which are often described in this huge ambition universal undertaking sort of way revealing these huge universal themes about human nature.

When a type 3 ENFJ does this sort of thing, it’s likely to be all much more personal in nature. Like, it’s about them, more or less. And it’s mostly about them in the sense that “Look what an awesome, heartbreaking heartbroken badass I am!” Ultimately, it’s more attractive and popular in some way. Because they have an attractive energy, no matter what fucked up shit they do. That Venusian lover energy is always underlying whatever they do. And they’re hot and sexy, so they can get away with murder even if every song they write is about how they were fucked over and got their heart broken.

Well, yeah! It’s because you’re a exhibitionist attention-starved drama queen narcissist.

Now, enneatype 8 ENFJs are narcissists too, but they don’t make no bones about it.

“You better listen to what I’m saying or I’ll flush you down the fucking toilet.”

“You gonna be sleeping with the fishes.”

“I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.”

Imagine all that with a Sicilian accent and you’ll get the type 8 vibe.

You do what I say or else it’s gonna be bad for you. They often won’t tell you what way it will be bad for you. It’s all inference. Let your imagination fill in the gaps.

The same thing is often done in horror movies. They don’t show you the monster outright. Because then you could KNOW what it’s like. You could categorize it and get that ISTP handle on it.

No, those type 8 ENFJs let you wonder about that shit. :smiling_imp:


#17

What about Grace Jones? She clearly projects a highly masculine image and is seen as scary and intimidating by many commentators.

But it’s hard to tell if she’s a genuine enneatype 8 ENFJ, or a type 3 pretending to be that tough. I’m leaning towards the latter, because she dramatically changed her image in the late 70’s from a Disco Diva to a carefully crafted (and highly successful!) androgynous figure. Her music shifted too, from classic 70’s disco-soul (her cover of La Vie En Rose for example) to a harder-edged reggae dominated formula which stood out from the crowd like nothing else at the time.


#18

I think they need to invent another number for her!

She don’t strike me as no enneatype 3, no sir. Yeah, I guess enneatype 8. What else could she be?

Patti Smith and Angelica Huston may be enneatype 8 ENFJs. Not sure. I’m confused.

Fucking Grace Jones, man. You hadda do that to me, didn’t you?

No, Angelica Huston has to be.

I think Grace Jones is an INTP.

Yeah. Her and Bill Gates. :japanese_goblin:


#19

Well, I’ve been trying to write something (some sort of novel) for years and this time I have seem to find something I’m passionate about, guess what… me. I’ve been writing for weeks something I like and it’s all about me, what I care, and a story that is meant to express just how much I feel in relation to the structures of the world and human nature, so yeah, I’m still not sure if it’s good in any way, but it feels nice to feel nice about oneself.


#20

Gee, what a surprise! :joy:

Well, there it is. Good. :+1: