ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)


#1

I never said Trump was an ENTP. If I did it was a typo.

I don’t think it’s an impossibility that Trump is an ENTJ but he DEFINITELY does not fit into the same vein of ENTJ as others Blake has named as ENTJ that are more obvious, like Simon Cowell or Gordon Ramsay. Penelope Trunk is another obvious ENTJ that’s relatively well-known.

Trump is whatever type our old pal supernokturnal was. So if Trump is an ENTJ, then so is super. They operate in the exact same way. (Check out his amazing MBTI empire he’s building on Instagram, lol.) From zero to nearly 10k followers in no time flat. How did he do it? How did Trump win the election?

I think it’s also worth considering how much of Blake’s anti-millennial bias factors into his assessment of Trump (I think…a not-insignificant amount). :wink: I also think a lot of people are enamored of Trump simply on the dubious virtue of his political incorrectness, which in and of itself is as a high priority, indicative of, uhhhhh, a certain level of delusion and/or willful ignorance. Like, “oh Trump is so great BECAUSE HE’S POLITICALLY INCORRECT!” I have yet to see anyone explain how exactly that in itself makes for a skillful leader. I also have yet to see anyone explain what virtues of governing Trump has aside from that. (Aside from the other winner: “he’s rich so he MUST be smart”).

Like, I get it. I used to think he was way more of a deliberate, strategic power mastermind than everyone (especially liberals) thought, too. Until I actually DID RESEARCH ON THE GUY. To be fair, I do think he’s more deliberate and strategic, and DEFINITELY brilliant in a weird…oxymoronically reactionary way. Just not an obviously-ENTJ-looking way. In a Supernokturnal kind of way (who is making his own sort of power ploy in the MBTI world that’s reminding me right now of Trump’s journey towards the presidency, lol). Which MAY be an ENTJ way, I don’t know, but again, it’d be a very different kind of manner from the Cowell/Ramsey/Trunk way of going about things. I think it’s about as reasonably far from an ENTJ as it is from ESTP in any case.

My problem with Trump-as-ENTJ is how absurdly much he obsesses over how he looks to people and to the press (i.e. A LOT, has anyone here read his conversation transcripts with Enrique Nieto lol) versus how much he cares about anything actually running well or the people under him being competent. I think we’ll be seeing more of the results of that by the end of this year.

Here are the transcripts from his conversation with the Mexican president and this conversation is one of the biggest things that leans me away from the impression that he’s an ENTJ.

Frankly, he sounds like too much like he’s trying too hard to appease and be liked, in a tert-Fe way, to be an ENTJ. Like “being liked” seems to him overall as a crucial point to whatever he’s aiming for, and I see this in his speeches too, a consistent effort at “petting the feelings” of his supporters or whoever he’s trying to curry favor with. Constant streams of flattery. Flattery is one of his main tools. I see ESTPs as prone to flattering others (see: supernokturnal), ENTJs, not so much. When ENTJs tell people nice things it can be kind of effusive and overwhelming but it feels sincere.

Anyway if I see any of the pro-Trump-is-ENTJ folks on here be like, “WELL I only skimmed that and I still think-” your comments on this topic probably also only deserve skimming lol. DON’T BE LIKE THE MILLENNIALS YOU SO HATE! Have the attention span to understand what you’re actually talking about! And I say this because I have seen MORE THAN ONCE here, and it drives me up a wall, people being like “Uhh I don’t know much about Trump I don’t read much news or politics lol but he’s DEFINITELY [x, y, or z] and if you do not think so, well that’s your liberal/millennial bias and I somehow feel qualified to determine this despite also admitting I DO NOT know what I’m talking about” and that is just mind boggling to me. (In that line of thought: Trump did not write The Art of the Deal which a quick Google search could tell you, so if anyone references that as “proof” of his ENTJ-ness I’m ignoring that too.)

That is what bugs me. Not the, and forgive the hyperbole, the anti-millennial thing or the anti-liberal thing, it’s the use of those things as a mask for what comes across strongly as, for lack of a nicer way to put it, plain ol’ willful ignorance.


Why there are so few NT's on this forum
#2

Hmmm let me try this again. Okay so, i May be out of touch with this but I don’t see people thinking of him as a bumbling dummy. I think he’s an estp and I think estps are smart. edit to add: by smart I mean, I think estps are really good at certain things that trump also seems really good at.

Also I’ll note I’m if the opinion that trump has handled North Korea well.


#3

Thanks!

In my dealings with ENTJs, it’s the Te - Fi axis that stands out. ENTJs organise for the sake of organising, which occasionally makes them miss the point. Combined with inferior Fi they sometimes overcompensate by being very accommodating and nice, to the point of being push-overs. Establishing contact with them is usually somewhat hard. This may sound odd, but I haven’t met the order-barking ENTJ yet. I’ve met two ENTJs who were in their fifties and they’d started tapping into their Fi. They’d managed to find a good balance between displaying the NT cadence and taking others into account.

With regard to Trump, I understand he has many business deals that went south in their day, and he doesn’t seem to have a plan for the US? I always saw him as an ESTP, even though Blake wrote an article that this is a common mistyping.


#4

What are you all seeing to suggest Se dom?


#5

My other reason for thinking trump is not entj is Because I’ve always thought he seems like a dominant extroverted perceiver, because he seems relatable to me in that way as an Entp. I wondered if he was an enfp or an entp because I thought he was doing Ne when he’s unable to stay on message and stuff. it wasn’t till meeting supernokturnal that I recognized the way estp and Entp communicate similarly sometimes. Then it made more sense to me that he was likely dominant Se not Ne.

So my trajectory on thinking trump is ESTP or more accurately Not and NT is from “thinking trump is Ne dom like me” which indicates to me that I wasn’t initially biased against him for being conservative… Yeah I have, hmm, 2 Entp friends, one was a republican throughout the obama years and has a lot of guns (drone friend) and the other is an executive at a big company and probably pretty moderate, we’ve never really talked politics. A third likely Entp who I grew up around who became a lawyer, conservative. So. Like. I just don’t have this NT=liberal thing baked into my thinking I guess.


#6

Hey I really agree about the instinctive visceral thing and injections of insight. I see enfj as similar in that sense. At least for the Trump kind of entj. I think I know entjs that are more like intj ( to the point of they look similar outwardly if you don’t know them well)

Entj also is usually always advancing piece by piece. And will look that way. Intj can look more on and off that way. It’s so weird to make declarations about types lol


#7

Speaking for myself: I think I see a presence, but that’s about it. Te is the hammer, it has a steely quality to it. When I compare an interview with Trump to an interview with the late Margaret Thatcher, with the latter I get this sense of focus. I don’t get that from Trump: it’s more of a natural agression but it’s not directed at anything.


#8

My bad, Wendy. I was almost sure you said it on the main website, but maybe it was a different Wendy, or maybe I was just imagining something! :stuck_out_tongue:

Hmmm…So it looks like “my” ENTJs and “your” ENTJs are different! If at all, I would say one of the defining ENTJsness factors is the exact opposite of what you have just stated. I think actually by having inferior Fi, they will never let anyone step over them. Encroach their most treasured values, family members, etc, and that’s it - you’re toast. ENTJs are also prone to secret feelings of insecurity…and a hidden desire to be loved and to “feel” love, but just can’t do it naturally. The more they suppress these feelings, the more they are prone to lashing out in fiery flashes of anger and developing narcissistic delusions to counteract against their hidden sense of insecurity…

I do think that ENTJs can definitely be ingratiating when they want to, but never accommodating or push-overy. They have their “circus-person moments” as they have Ne Sagittarius as their id…giving them the natural charm often found in businessmen and comedians. But it tends to be very flamboyant, sudden, excessive, or rushed. However all of this is graced with a sense of presence and confidence to compensate for all the corniness/overexaggeration.

Oh…but ENTJs can be softer I think, or at least only to certain people, like wife/husband and family. They can be more smooth if they’d like, I guess… And to these cherished people, an ENTJ will be very loving and indefinitely loyal. But I don’t think ENTJ will ever be “accommodating” necessarily, or a push-over. They are lions…Leos…They will love or rule like a lion.

I do agree that it is more difficult to see order-barking ENTJs like Gordon Ramsay. But they are all able to project a definite sense of presence, like ENFJs, due to this Ni-Se axis going on. And they can project any kind of personality they want to.


#9

I read a good deal of that transcript and what struck me the most about Trump’s side is the make no mistake about it feel of implied threat. Thank you for sharing I found it very interesting and will be rereading later. And then the sense of honor when talking to Turnball.


#10

They’re like this when it comes to getting things done. Being Te doms, they can become impatient and disregard things they believe will cause delay. They’re not like this in everyday interactions: Fi inf makes this hard on them, hence being evasive and conflict-avoiding.

Interestingly, my ENTJ friend can have these outburst when it comes to certain political ideals that she has. She’s almost like a different person when it comes to this, she comes across as borderline volatile in that context.

This is a characteristic of people who have the F-function in the inferior position: it renders them incapable of establishing contact, whether it’s an IxTP or an ExTJ.


#11

Interesting abou the inferior Fi. I am fascinated by entj Fi. The way it looks like to me is they’ve have Fi moments and twinges and then they get redirected or hidden in strength. I find it beautiful lol. But not the airing of grievances during their Ne like rambles which said rambles I’ve only witnessed in some entjs. But when they just have that pure Fi posessionfleeting posession then the strength just hides it or sublimates it. It’s got beauty. I find them hard to count on though for that stuff. Because sometimes they’ve got such teeth. Typed in a car sorry for typos mistakes getting car sick.


#12

OK, for the record:

I REALLY DO THINK TRUMP IS AN ENTJ.

But, you said previous to this

And I totally agree with that statement. I think ENTJ is naturally politically conservative.

Also, I wasn’t saying that I thought NT’s were naturally politically liberal/leftist, I was saying the ones that you asked to check out the forum were likely to be due to what I know about you and your likely political affiliations :smile:

NT’s as a group are likely to be more right-leaning/conservative than NF’s a group. Why? Because the feeling function is more liberal and the thinking function isn’t.

However, I think xNTP’s will be more liberal than xNTJ’s. And ENTJ will definitely be the least liberal of them all due to Fi inferior and Te dominant.

ENTPs can go either way, but I tend to think they are more liberal than not.

And ENFP is the liberal type par excellence, however, sometimes you see them in the ranks of the right. Check out comedian Dennis Miller for an instance of this. But, this tends to be when they are all jacked up on Te. It’s not really their natural orientation.

Anyway, to be clear, I REALLY DO THINK TRUMP IS AN ENTJ. This is not a conspiracy theory :blush:


#13

I bet this has a lot to do with Bush, basically; I bet ENTP is a bit like a thing blowing in the wind with regard to poltiics. “Who seems less dumb?” Or something like that. Not really driven by any Fi stuff it’s just kind of like, locally, in the past few years, what is less annoying to me? haha.

Edit to add
Actually probably it’s the moral majority, Newt gingrich’s fault. Which is funny as he’s probably an ENTP.

But with the rise of Antifa and controlling factions on the left, I think ENTPs will snap back into the center very quickly.


#14

I believe Trump is an ENTJ. He’s loud, and that’s a Te dom thing. Every EXTJ I’ve met is that way, most ESXPs I’ve met are completely different. In fact, I’ve met some ESTPs at work, in the school, etc, and they all have some sort of strong presence, but that’s it, they aren’t that loud and in your face. I don’t believe Trump is stupid, by the way, I believe he’s kind of smart in the sense that he created a persona that let him act the way he does, which to me is particularly discusting. If Trump has a Se quality to him it must be in the tertiary, because it just isn’t leading.


#15

Also (I think I’m getting in a mined soil) as far as I’m concerned, ESTPs display a capricorn Se, correct? To me Trump’s Se is far more primitive, which as far as I understand Blake thoughts would be the mutable Se.


#16

No they don’t. Trump is not genuinely scatter brained. He’s coherently destructive. He knows exactly what he’s doing at every turn. Just look at his wry smile after he says something he knows hits the spot. All effective trolls have an implicit understanding of cause and effect. They judge their actions by the reactions even if it appears spontaneous. People like Super seem genuinely spontaneous and non causal/ordered in their actions and thoughts.


#18

Hello, i changed my avatar because I’m a creepy lurker ISFJ
Anyhow, I have been studying a possible ENTJ most of my life, my older brother, who I have been in business with, and his ISFJ wife and an ENFP, who spend a lot of time fixing all the things ENTJ breaks, for over a decade.
Me I’m a perfectionist of course.

Something that would be a noticeable difference between an ESTP and ENTJ is the amount of trophies in their cabinet.
ENTJ got trophies.
ESTP are essentially kooks (someone that thinks they are better than what they are; the online definition is out of date), much in the same way INFJ may only ever get half-good at most things, but then punch themselves in the face over frustration, an ESTP will pretend they are good at something, especially in the presence of girls, which is a display that might makes someone else want to punch him in the face.
And when he gets punched in the face and can’t defend himself, gets all teary-eyed because he know they’re kooks.

An ENTJ can get the living shit smashed out of them and come back, even appreciate it, and seek it.
Crazy-arsed, that’s if I understand ENTJ.
And Trump takes punches well.


#19

I don’t think I would ever associate the ‘mastery’ or virtù with someone like Super. Whenever I encounter an ENTJ there’s something I really like about them. It’s what Machiavelli called ‘virtù’. It’s effectiveness, control, ability, method. I admire their skill/guile/will. It’s good ‘execution’. I can see it clearly in Trump. You can see it clearly in the books he’s written, what he admires, what he tries to improve in himself. Hence why he’s always researching etymology of words and applying these words to different media occasions, to see what works. Trump loves effectiveness, being a winner, strength over adversity. It’s as Machiavelli described as being the greatest triumph available to man — conquering fortuna, coz fortune is a woman and she needs to be conquered. I’ve written in the Trump thread about how Trump essentially has conquered his own nature and let’s his id speak.

But yeah, Super is exactly the type I would associate NOT with virtù, which I closely align with Te. What was super? I don’t remember his type. But I never got that impression. More just like a capricious person mildly given to irritating everyone.

Deal, force, victory, winning, success, numbers, execution, capable, achievement, mission, business, conquest, polemos, war, division, etc. these are the marks of a ENTJ. It’s maleness, virtue - virileness in its origins.


#20

Oh, I’m uncomfortable to ask but still curious, who was Super and what happened to him?


#21

YES I agree with this sweeping fire type of idea generation in ENTJ, sparks of inspiration that I can usually ponder on for a few moments to determine if it’s a good idea or not (“will this fit well into my future and current plans?”). It’s spontaneous. This relates to being harsh as an ENTJ too; I’m not sitting around planning my attack on someone. It’s in the moment, I’m just saying what I think. to contrast, my enfp partner will let several “notches” of offense from one person build and build, I’ll listen to him slowly build resentment over time, until he finally has some great big reason to explode at them. If I explode at someone (which I don’t do often because I’m a nice ENTJ) it isn’t premeditated.

I’ll say as an ENTJ that I can indeed be a pushover, but that term is a little too…obvious. When I get walked on I kind of don’t acknowledge/own up to how it was my own fault I got walked on. That’s probably the inferior Fi, not being in tune with how I really feel about accommodating until it’s been accommodated. It’s hard for me to admit I’m being a pushover, it’s embarrassing and I’d rather create some justification for why it’s actually totally fine how it happened. Like it’s relatively unemotional looking on the surface but deep down it’s personally humiliating. I think ENTJs can only be walked on a certain way one time, the next time they’ll remember it wasn’t actually what they wanted (like how @lunar mentioned Fi moments that get redirected or hidden in strength). So maybe over time ENTJs won’t let anyone step on them but most of them can probably remember the times they’ve been over-accommodating (or just generally accommodating) and having it come back to bite us (exactly where we feared it would bite us but that’s embarrassing to admit).

I (ENTJ) disregard things or sometimes permit things that I don’t really think will be that big of a deal in a moment of impatience, and that sometimes turns into me being walked on/pushed over. It’s like, not wanting to deal with something so I take a half-assed alternative hoping I can just avoid the stupid thing (usually some kind of emotional issue I don’t have time for) but some of those times the thing comes back full force because I didn’t handle it in a way that would actually resolve.

Definitely agree here. I think the intense desire for an ENTJ to be loved is very much a private thing. Like as private as their conscious weaknesses. Someone mentioned the Te tendency to manage image. I see Trump hyper concerned with people loving him (as Wendy mentioned). ENTJs want people to love them but it’s a quieter endeavor, not as obvious as trump’s style.

If an ENTJ isn’t (constantly) getting love/praise/affirmation that they are THE SHIT, they’ll still be a Lion leader but one that feels a little less secure and looks a little more reactive than your well-loved and praised leo lion. Picture a hurt little lion kitty licking his paw, too proud to display what is really bothering them (not enough attention/praise/love) and not emotionally mature enough (Fi inferior) to even be able to verbalize it very well thus acting out as a mean grumpy lion.

WOW if only I could explain this when people are like “Why are you such a bad friend?”

I’d have to say I don’t think ENTJs are coherently destructive. Like @schlopadoo mentioned, ENTJs will create chaos where they’ve been hurt/offended. It’s not calculated and beautifully manipulative, it’s spontaneous, ugly, blind anger/rage/pain/idiocy. Trump seems more calculated than this in his trolling, offending, and image control. I use Te dom and do not see Te in Trump. He may have someone close to him who uses Te, but I see way more Ti in Trump than Te.

So regarding the original topic of this thread, I don’t think Trump is an ENTJ, and I do think others looking into this site could see blake’s potential mistyping of trump as a problem, but like you’ve said it’s their funeral, and anyone with a thinking brain would/should examine more than one very small part of this site so hopefully it’s NBD. [Also it’s helpful for me to hear @Wendy say that NTs often aren’t that interested in INFJs… When I saw how saturated this site was I thought “lucky for that type, I’ll probably read about them last.”]

I personally had a hard time “diving in” to this site in part because of it’s format. For example it’s much easier to read and navigate on a computer, and I’d guess a lot of people don’t use computers on a daily anymore, so if they only visit this site the first few times on a phone they may not come back. Meanwhile my favorite thing about this forum is the comment counter/scroll shortcut. So functional!