ENTP Trapped in Ne-Fe Loop. How can I bring Ti into social interactions?


#1

Basically, I’m finding myself giving a fuck way too much about how my interactions are affecting people and it’s making me feel lost and unlike myself. The lack of social confidence seems transparent and it’s causing me to make mistakes with people, either being overly affectionate or unnecessarily harsh. My Ti is constantly engaged introspectively and in isolation through reading and learning, drawing, etc. but in social situations I am having trouble thinking before acting and then when my Ti catches up I over-analyze all of the days events to the point of generalized-anxiety. I’m still gaining perspective in my MBTI understanding so if there are any corrections or alternative possibilities to why I’m experiencing what I’m experiencing I’m all ears for any kind of helpful advice. I’ll try not to call it stupid. Unless you suggest that I bring T.I. the person to all social events. (Haha, that’s a joke…see what I’m talking about!!!)


ENTP vs. INFJ or similar:
#2

So I don’t think there’s any entp’s here anymore to help you out. But I assume you can learn the way most people do… practice. Don’t put this advice in the stupid pile please. Sort it in the basics pile. :neutral_face:


#3

Haha. Your response belongs in the cute pile, not the stupid one. My problem is, I’m not sure what to practice. Ti seems like a solitary function but much of the advice I get from MBTI “experts” seems to be to develop this and use it to essentially “think” before I speak/act. But I don’t know what the hell I’d be practicing besides merely shutting the fuck up. I’ve tried that but then I start getting the “what’s wrong?” questions and people prying into my well being etc.

Btw, I actually think recognizing that I may be the only ENTP here is what made me feel comfortable posting. I almost feel very un-ENTP by wanting to reach out for help but psychological types don’t need to become stereotypes. Not long ago - and very often - I do fit the prototypical ENTP profile but more lately I feel unlike myself and out of place. Less confident and more need for validation. Got any advice for how to find oneself again?


ENTP vs. INFJ or similar:
#4

I don’t know enough details about your specific situation. (Stupid pile.)

But I relate in that I kinda felt like my aux was something that was only useful for work. It’s natural to resort to tertiary in any other situation. But to bring my aux into other parts of my life, I learned to bring both aux and tert into the mix. The way I saw it was to treat my tertiary like a little brother. Little brothers can be cute and funny and all, but sometimes they do and say the stupidest things. So I try to keep the big brother in front of the little guy to protect him. And if big brother gets to overprotective then that’s a sign to unleash the little monster.


#5

Good point. I suppose more details would help you help me and besides… details are a very Ti thing to do!

So here’s the scoop: I work in an all male environment with many intuitive types and a couple other NTs. The owner, INTJ, I’m very cool with and we don’t have many interpersonal conflicts. His brother in-law, INFJ, he just brought on in the last couple years to fill the CEO role (constant conflict). The lead-level engineer, ENTJ, I get along with well until I challenge his conservativism. Then he seems to demonstrate a very fragile ego and almost literally falls apart and becomes hostile and vindictive. I can deal with that, just avoid anything beyond surface level interactions.

The CEO is the main problem and he seems to rally the others surreptitiously when he feels threatened. I’m not sure how I threaten him always, aside from when I use blunt honesty and rationalize solutions back into problems by showing how they ultimately don’t work. But this is my default mode and where I feel most comfortable.

The few points the CEO (INFJ) makes about my tact and care (or lack thereof) in my approach causes me to reflect and take them serious as I’ve heard similar complaints most of my life. So I try to engage my Fe a little more because in some ways I actually respect and appreciate the CEO and think that if we could make things work we’d be a good team. However, I feel I’m bending too much and now feel trapped in more areas beyond work and really just want to find the old confident and resourceful me again

Hope that does something for the conversation :grin:


#6

Does he know this? Does he feel undermined by your approach? Have you observed others’ positive interactions with your CEO, what seem to work for them?

Can you rationalise some solutions back into the problems? Can you make things neat n tidy for INFJ CEO sensibility? Can you say ‘- but don’t worry, I like your idea, it may just need a little tweaking to make it super duper’?

Generally though, you don’t want to lose yourself trying to please others for fear of offending. Bolster your confidence by maintaining your positive interactions with others and take the pressure off yourself. Be true to who you are (barf, sorry) and maintain your positive intentions without pandering to please someone who’s resisting. (Even if it is the CEO)

If he’s any good will pick up on that, recognise your talent and relax a bit.

Not sure if this is the kind of advice you’re looking for - it might be too wishy washy for you, not function/ type specific enough.
Plus this generic advice might be completely out of place in an all male work dynamic and at that level, so apologies in advance. Maybe you just need to woop somebody’s ass and achieve a level of male dominance. Tarzan style. Beat your chest with your Ti analysis papers. What do I know.

I’m intrigued though - do you have specific examples to share?


#7

Looks like you’ve created a dissonant polarity within yourself between outer validation and integrity.

In the specific examples you gave above with your work situation, it seems you’re beating yourself up because your overusing Fe too much to make your CEO happy and it’s eating at you. I don’t know how much input involvement you have compared to the CEO in your company. Or wether this is more of a serious career for you or stepping stone for something else. These types of things would help determine the right direction for approaching the situation.

In a general sense it seems you are pointing out flaws within work processes and the CEO is being immature and sensitive about it.

Maybe when pointing out problems you can add a dash of Fe.

-Ask yourself if this flaw you noticed really negatively affects the overall outcome of the company’s goal.
-Focus his attention on how your trying to help make his job easier.
-For every problem you uncover, come up with a suggestion for the solution that you will implement yourself.
-Make sure he’s aware of your intention to contribute to the company’s success above all else. Show him you care for the company.
-Point out the good ideas that you believe are actually working. (Point out the positive)

Maybe their could be deeper problems that you are trying to get at but aren’t able to articulate because of a lack of Fi in your stack. If this is the case maybe you can continue to elaborate…


#8

Boy! Sammy and Sacha did not disappoint!

These are the kinds of responses I don’t usually get from feelers and family, whom, try to relate by connecting to my emotions but without any understanding that my ability to process (or sometimes even feel) emotion in any objectively understandable sense is nearly null. I think this is why it takes deep use of my Ti to get me out of the Ne-Fe rut. As you both probably noticed, I took some Ti time this weekend. Did some reading, meditated, observed silently and whoa! I feel better! I also took a lot of your advice into consideration. Some of it confirmed tactics I’ve already employed and some of it is just not going to work with my personality I think. But…I further think talking about…well…ME, sounds fun as I very much enjoyed your insights and perspectives and truly did find much of what was said valuable.

In response to you both:

Sacha, I’m not sure how specific to get but without too many details, our business is IT and some of the platforms we utilize require a mix of technical and creative intelligence. I think my CEO and I share a little of both but he will often get hung up on the technical side so much that he cannot generate or rationalize creative possibilities beyond what he has sanctioned himself to understanding. For example, he will be hyper focused on the technical process of a very specific portion of the program or software and will want to funnel every part of the platform into the one portion he deeply understands without realizing how restrictive and castrating it is to current and future possibilities. When I point these things out and logically explain their limits he gets frustrated, rolls his eyes, and accuses me of being “ideological” (his phrase). I often think, whether or not I’m using an ideology to approach the problem (usually I’m not as I tend to examine and entertain every possible angle of a thing or situation) it doesn’t stop the conclusion I’ve presented from being rational and demanding an equally rational argument or acceptance.

Sammy, I GUARANTEE you there are deeper problems in which I cannot articulate. I think I’ve been able to identify and rationalize the obvious ones but close to none that stem internally. Not sure how to even begin. I can talk about my external life experiences (raised in the Texas bible belt, child of divorce, conservative family on one side, liberal on the other, abused by religious, selfish and ignorant zealots, left home at a young age, spent time in the Navy, blah blah blah). These are all life experiences that I attribute in one form or another to my personal development and how I feel about them but I think they’ve been largely addressed and understood. On the other hand, I battle often with feelings of narcissism and superiority that I hate yet justify through logical reasoning, empirical evidence, rationality etc. I don’t want to be a dick but I also don’t want to show fealty to ignorant emotions for no reason at all. That’s the internal stuff…I think.

Thanks guys!

-Christian


#9

From another thread:

Perhaps its your wanting to prove “I’m the best in the room” vibe that bothers your CEO, not your blunt honesty…
:thinking:
But… what level are you in the company?


#10

Ah, you’re getting to a good point @Spice but I don’t think “level” applies to anything but a title in the company. You can still be wrong about shit. But, also to your point, I could be more respectful. I doth contest too much!

For the answer you wanted. I’ve got veteran status on him but he does know his shit and has been in the industry longer than me and worked in a similar position before. So, there is respect where it’s deserved. I treat things as they come. Flaws and all.