ENTP vs. INFJ or similar:


#41

It’s a problem shared by both INFPs and I INFJs.


#42

Yeah, actually if anything I see it plaguing INFPs even more. But I think they’re more tenacious once they actually start and feel committed.


#43

Tiny, I feel the same. I wish I could engage more, but I fall so easily behind. And in my case there’s also this constant effort to translate things back and forth again, so that I make sure I understood what people meant and I don’t react too soon or too impulsively. You are not alone and I feel grateful because you wrote it. I don’t know what to do with Fe, but I am sending you a virtual hug. :hugs:


#44

I do sometimes write my drafts to a word document, especially if its a longer piece or I don’t have time to finish it in one go.


#45

Me too, I’ve lost count of how many opportunities have passed by while I’ve been hesitating over my options.


#46

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought this, when I’ve read someone’s post. I feel really uncomfortable writing half arsed comments that aren’t thought through properly, or backed up by any facts or solid evidence (which would be most of the time), so I don’t often comment right away (if at all). I think that’s why I hang back; because I know someone will say it a lot more eloquently and more better thought out than I could.

Though I do fear that this makes me come across as though I don’t have opinions of my own and I’m just agreeing with the strongest voice, I’m not, just the one that resonates with what I was thinking.

The flip side is I do want to join in and acknowledge other’s great insights. So times (like now) when I don’t have to think through the content as much as it is essentially about me and my experiences, I feel more able to express myself. I still cringe when I read back through my own comments and get annoyed about things like grammar, length, waffle, content too personal, not personal enough etc) but I am trying to get over that and just let Fe flow freely and trust you guys to see past those things!

This made me laugh. My husband laughs at what I think must be my Fi tantrums. Think this is one of the reasons why I felt INFP resonates with me at some level. He’s described my tantrums as being ‘a bit of a madam’ - think I’ve even stamped my foot in frustration. He sees me as quite comical.

Very occasionally when I’ve been completely overwhelmed over a long period of time, I’ve had a full on rage and he’s had a very different reaction to me then. Where I think I’ve actually seen shock, hurt and maybe a bit of fear in his face. That worried me. to cause that reaction in someone else.

Anyway, sorry I digress.

I have also been wondering this. I do all this on my phone on my commute to work and it is annoying but it is the most convenient time to do it. the rest of my day is full of work and the evening is spent making dinner and snatching an hour or two catching up with my husband/ watching a US tv series. I might ‘write’ notes on my phone to get my thoughts out before copying & pasting into the post but this feels messy and disjointed to me and I end up not sending a lot of what I’ve written. Useful for future reference though I guess.

This post, however I am writing on the computer, at home on a weekend while my husband is occupied in his studio making music. And it’s so much better! I can touch type and get my thoughts out more quickly without the risk of pressing ‘send’ accidentally or with the time pressure to get it done before my stop. But I am now doing this instead of getting dressed and getting on with my other jobs for the day. And could easily stay here for the rest of the afternoon. But I won’t. Got a list of things to buy. Very important job.

@LifeExamined great to have you on board, you’re like a strong wind that has blown away the dust that started to settle. Nice to have your voice in the mix.

@batshitty @Stewart @nirdre I want to put my astro chart up too and would love to hear your thoughts on it - I’m so interested in how it impacts my typing. Blake touched on it when we did a consultation but I’m hungry for more! I know you guys have a lot on at the moment and are in great demand so not sure if this is something you’ll have time to look at. Maybe I’ll post anyway and people can chime in as and when. it might be better on another thread I’m not sure - do we have one for astro charts specifically? Can’t recall off the top of my head.

Ok, enough for now. Off I go.


#47

Yes, please post it in the chart thread I’d love to look at it! I’m slow at it, especially writing the interpretation out, so it will take a few weeks to get to everyone.


#48

I wonder if this is an Ne vs Ni thing. My INFJ buddy has expressed this concern many times and his frustration with me when he can tell that I’m not being factual in my arguments. What I struggle to get him to understand is that when I’m speaking in definitive terms about concepts neither of us are well versed in, I’m speaking from reasoned intuition (and not quite as definitive as being presented). I hope many of you have noticed that I will argue strongly until I’ve navigated beyond my depth. At that point, I will stress admittedly that what is now being said by me is conjecture and speculation due to my ignorance of the technicalities in the argument. However, that doesn’t stop me from making the argument because often if I have some context and have established a logical pattern I am able to see cause and effect necessities beyond my immediate or verified scope of knowledge. Many times my INFJ friend and I will investigate my theories together and I’ll usually be correct; and if I’m not, I just smile and say, “Well, I told you it was just a hypothesis” :grin:. I think ENTPs and INFJs share this concern because we both loathe people who are full of shit so we want to make sure we ourselves are not being hypocritical fucks like the rest of the world. Another thing I’ve noticed from my INFJ bestie is that he doesn’t feel comfortable being philosophical with me, even though he is constantly presenting intriguing philosophical and metaphysical goodies to chew on. I think he just doesn’t want to waste time on thoughts that can’t be verified but he can’t help it in the end (none of us can, so I hope). I’m not sure he always sees the implications of his ideas and I have to show him how they’re revelatory and interesting. We actually both share this power but I would say my strong Ne backed by Ti gives me some extra confidence he doesn’t have. In fact, I’ll often deem certain “experts” as fallacious because their factual claims don’t conform to logic and rationality, therefore, title of expert or not, there’s no reason to believe them. I’m a dyed in the wool philosopher as well as metaphysician and one last aside is that frequently I am engaged in drafting my own theories and philosophies about the world. So I know that they are not going to be verified anywhere, and I like that, because maybe someday they will be.


#49

Great I’ll get it on the Astro chard thread that nidre pointed me to :smiley:


#50

The sentence above the philosophy part is part of the problem. Ni has no proof. So we run the risk and I’d guess more than just myself has been in trouble with the ‘well, I just know’ answer. I can’t back things up and it takes a while before people start to realize that I did in fact know.
I can’t remember the details of the multitudes of things I have read, not more than the gist, so I have no hard data, or if I can remember some, it is like a collected mishmash of so many things I have come across and is very hard to get a grip on. In my experience, Ni is not something you take out for just anyone. And even those you love can be, in all fairness wanting the conversation, hard on your ‘just knowing’. And again to be fair, we don’t always know and ENTP Ne is very good for us. I can be narrow in ways. And even when we are sure we do know, it is exhausting to try to explain what cannot be put into words and I have little power to explain. Some INFJ’s will be better at expressing themselves or maybe more confident. For me, the knowing can change so much from one day to the next, and I don’t mean the basic premise changes, but the way it connects and more is known, tweaks it, fills it out, morphs it bigger, wider. Like a flock of starlings… where new starlings join and some leave. But it is also about the air they fly in and the sound they fly over, the clouds and and and … no even this is not metaphor enough.
Also, my brother has been annoyed that I don’t want to hear all the things that happen, that people are doing to each other, in other words, news… and I say, but I already know this, and he doesn’t understand how I can know when I am not paying attention. It is not the specific thing though. Maybe I don’t know where it happened or to whom but I know we are capable of it and I know it is happening somewhere because we are human. Very little surprises me, though too often it disgusts me. I know it, I don’t need to hear it. I would much rather listen to and ponder creative ideas.
BTW, he is your same age, just hit me, comically hours after I read your Birthday, but that is how it goes. I am much older, he was a surprise. So I am your bigger fool of a sister, not the other way around.


#51

Haha. How’s that for a metaphor!


#52

Realizes belatedly she implied you are a fool. Is okay with that.


#53

@TinyYellowTree Haha. I love it. You’d have to be ok with it. I’m ruthless.


#54

You have a lot of Fe for… ruthless… or have you not brought your claws out?


#55

I’m here to work on Fe. I won’t bring my claws out here. It’s too inconsequential. I see many ENTPs like to troll. I suppose I’ve matured beyond that to an extent. My default personality has a trolling aspect to it in my nature toward the universe. I think reality is supremely hilarious and fascinating. @blake said it best somewhere about the ENTP “how dare things have the temerity to exist”. That’s me. I don’t know how to explain it. I take ideas more serious than I do people and things. If you’ve read my “Is it Possible to Offend an ENTP” post you’ll see I’m probably impossible to offend. Or better said. I can’t be offended anymore than I already am by the human species. I do not exclude my physical and emotional self from this. But my mental self? Fuck yeah. I’m an alien race here to study you all.


#56

I’m actually here to work on Ti as it relates to Fe. Just to clarify and be exact. I’m in an Ne-Fe loop right now and I need to eject. Talking to you guys is somehow helping immensely. Can anyone explain that?


#57

@batshitty Make mine last as you seem to agree with a lot of what piggy said. Thanks!


#58

That’s funny, yes, I do have a distaste for BS and depending on who’s spouting it will call them on it with humour (of a sort) or silently seethe and loose a level of respect for that person. Or both, often. Depends how seriously they take themselves and what impact it has/context. Is it tongue in cheek or is it actually harmful propaganda.

But often it’s some guy’s ego involved and someone who loves a debate, and that, I’m just not interested in. I like listening to ideas but I’m not into politics, arguing for sport or to convert anyone. Stop being a dick. End of.
[context: M.A. Philosophy at St.Andrews I met my fare share of w*nkrs (though not specifically the philosophers)]

Yes. I see why that might be. (See above). It tires me out. Endlessly going around in circles.

This helpful I would think, to ground ideas at some point. Someone who can take lofty abstracts and make them relevant not just to mankind but on a personal level is someone I can listen to. Energising talk rather than talk that wears you down.

All of what you said in your comment. And especially this.
When friends, acquaintances get worked up, passionate and animated over the state of the world and causes close to their heart how can you explain your outwardly neutral reaction? They struggle to understand how you aren’t as equally worked up.
And I’m grateful to those who do feel such passion to act because where would we be if there wasn’t??


#59

I 100% resonate with this Sacha! I find this sort of stuff is symptomatic of lack of Ti (or at least not engaging in it), I mean the bullshitting ego-rubbing circle-jerk “I’m-so-smart” hollow talk, but don’t take my word for it.


#60

This makes sense, and I never quite understood how I could to see it and (seemingly) understand it (Ti) but not quite able to wield it. [wield: that’s one of those words that loses all meaning when when you read it too many times, lol].

I guess this is a function manifesting in the tertiary position?

Like @LifeExamined recognising Fe, interested in it but not able to embody it?