ENTP vs. INFJ or similar:


#101

Undecided on posting it? Maybe. Undecided on what it is I’m going to post? You’d be gravely mistaken. This is my shit right here. I spend an infinitude thinking about it. Consciously, subconsciously, unconsciously, awake, dreaming. I live these thoughts. They seem apparent and transparent to me. If and when I do post it. It will be a very long post…


#102

Dang it. I was trying to find a way to trigger you into posting.

btw when you do, are you planning to convince or impose your outlook on others? or do you merely wanna share your view?

are you open to being convinced that there are probably better ways to look at it? or are you already set on your nihilism. as somewhat of a paradoxical as that sounds.

i guess what I’m really asking is. since you’ve stated that you’re an atheist. are you open to possibly semi theistic approach


#103

Hahaha. I actually thought about this last night and made myself laugh with what I came up with.

I’m not an “atheist” per se. I’m “athe-ish”.

Meaning, I suppose I am an atheist as in “non-theistic”. I don’t think anyone can convince me that their theism isn’t completely contrived and man-made. Even if they’ve deigned to create their own unique and personally developed belief system and doctrine (it’s at least made up by this one woman or man).

So, yeah. I’m an atheist in that sense.

But I’m also “athe-ish” in the sense that I’m not committed to the premise of ‘no God’, I mean, I don’t BELIEVE God doesn’t exist. I actually think it’s a meaningless contemplation. What do people mean by “God”? Usually, it just boils down to “transcendent experience”. Well, I’ve looked at plenty of sunsets and have done enough shrooms, acid and meditation to achieve that state of qualia through well understood chemically and neuroelectrically induced pathways. Surely we shouldn’t wane God down to this understanding.

So what do I believe? Nothing really. If an idea or thought requires “belief” then it’s not worth accepting. This doesn’t mean I don’t have an imagination. It just means that my imagination is just what it is.

Do I believe that we’re all connected and share energy throughout the universe? No. I know it! It’s obvious. Look at the electromagnetic spectrum and the way electrons flow between atoms and our germ biome, DNA, long and short intersperse transposons, quantum entanglement, neurotransmission between physical and electrical impulses induced by internal and external stimuli arriving at thought and awareness, consciousness and how it’s registration is transactional between inner and outerspace (perceiver and object). I guess if you had to ascribe some label to me you could call me a pantheist. I believe the universe is God. But, I don’t really BELIEVE that. I know it. Because of how the Universe is defined. However, this is all very anthropocentric and could be applied to the ‘Anthropic Principle’. The thought that this all seems created and made for us because of the patterns we see in nature and how we tie it back to our subjective experience based on our limited perceptions. I like to give myself and the rest of humanity more credit than that. We need to start thinking much bigger! The human concept of God is so myopic and cliche at this point. Besides, didn’t Nietzsche already tell everyone? God’s dead.

But is there a God? Meh, depends on how you define it. And that shouldn’t matter to anyone but you anyway. As long as we all agree that we’re all here and are all equally relevant to the experience of the Universe that’s all that matters. This whole belief in God and other things is nonsense that just separates us from the true and objective understanding that we’re all here doing our best to be worthy of existence. Even if we’re not from other people’s perspectives; well then, cogito ergo sum. Or as I like to say, cogito ergo MAGNA sum. “I think therefore the GREAT I am”.

Does this answer the question?


#104

i laughed at the picture of you laughing at your own little pun

in that sense. count me in.

exactly man. exactly. this is the first thing I ask when people ask me if I believe in a God. then we get into a whole discussion on what “God” means first.

this phrase already tells me you know God exist.
yes. and I’m getting your idea of that “God”.

you’re the most spiritual athe-ish I’ve ever seen.

yes I get the gist of your understanding and I’m pretty sure we’re on a similar wave length.

btw.

you should also look into astrology :grin:


#105

Its appeal is increasing. I’ll probably get there eventually through my strange roundabout way.


#106

And I don’t want to write a half arsed response, and don’t feel capable of anything else at the moment. Dealing with shit. Wait please.

See above. Shit. I’ll be back. But I wanted to thank you so much for coming out of the woodwork to respond to me as you have multiple times. I really, really appreciate it. Hopefully be back to commenting shortly. Have to pull myself back up by the bootstraps here… and hoping I can do so within a week or so.
And not to be ridiculously vague but mother in law and brother in law just left after living with us for coming on three months and to avoid losing my shit on her, I caved in and blew the good structure I was getting to with eating well. And it matters, cause right now I have a killer headache and can’t fucking think. But I am eating a good breakfast, so getting back on my rather tall horse. Be back.


#107

Interesting. I think you’re right. One reason having an infj friend as an entp can be so important I think is that their Fi id is like a train on rails, as if it has Fi’s characteristic entitlement-to-subjectivity but is so loud and rickety that it’s an obviously existent thing, which is interesting for an entp to witness. It’s like “oh this subjective human thing is real.”

Fi in xxfp types, Fi in the ego, is more like, integrated and sneaky and seems to prefer to claim lack of existence (“it’s not Fi it’s just ME”), at least in my observation of it. So it took me a long time to realize it’s a thing. Like that it exists. But watching it in infj it’s like somehow separate from their ego and it’s separation gives it form I can see. Weird. I can’t explain.

But in seeing it in id form I’ve been able to see how it is a legitimate part of human experience, and that has helped me like, justify Fi minimums even when they don’t really make sense.

And that has helped me do everything from: survive Isfp divorce adventure land, be more firm with slippery colleagues who only respond to emotional arguments, and not get emotions stacked up and surprising me the way you described here.


#108

My experience with developing Ti as an entp and with breaking Ne/Fe loops—and perhaps even more importantly with pausing Te id action—has been that it feels approximately like what i imagine Fi feels like. I think I can kind of only approximate Fi via Ti (inverse of @Blake’s most recent article about infj Ti being in context of Fi).

What I mean by this is developing Ti has felt a lot more subjective to me than I would have thought. Like, Ti is a subjective function so this makes sense.

I mean look at how intp are. They seriously think they are right about everything all the time. Ti is a rightness function like Fi in a way. Just more about true/false than analog good<->bad

But really developing Ti for me, which has been the action that breaks the looping tendency, has been a lot about coming to a subjective sense of what’s true/false for me. One way I’ve been able to know I’m doing it right is that it exists internally without my necessarily having to argue it to someone. Like, it does not matter if I can prove it to someone else. It still exists—this feels a lot like belief to me. Maybe that’s what subjectivity feels like to entp is just belief.

Anyway yeah. Ti is subjective, internal—I think you have a lot of it squeezing out in your writing style but I would say also you’re probably a lot more Te iddy than you may realize more than Fe looping. And breaking out of Te id tendencies, if you care to, is as simple/difficult as waiting ten days before you do the thing. Like, don’t act. Take no action. Don’t put the firecracker in the plumbing. Or wait 10 days to see if other data rises that might suggest it’s not a good idea. etc.


#109

AGHHHH DAMMIT. I really didn’t want to post here, but now I really can’t take it after all this voyeuristic lurking.

Welcome back!

And I was afraid to say everything you just said, but thank you for saying what I didn’t want to say. :slight_smile: This is also what I’ve noticed with ENTPs. And those that are channeling their Ti I’ve noticed tend to speak a lot less (although still very talkative, chatty, and friendly), argue a lot less and are more willing to listen and wait before speaking…For some reason I feel like the rabid speech gets also somewhat slowed down. Their Ti-isms come out a lot more slowly but are crystal clear, as if they’re explaining something incredibly complex to a kindergartener. This is what I’ve observed in very mature 40+ ENTP scientists in my life. Johno, you relate?

I also agree. I didn’t fully agree with Fe tertiary temptation, but I kept silent trying to suppress myself from posting here. What I saw was full blown Te-id. My baby student was also in full-blown Te-id only occasionally swinging back to tertiary. What this led to was WAY too much arguing with me every 10 seconds while I’m trying to explain something. While I appreciated the enthusiasm…ummm…sometimes I didn’t find the arguing necessary or that actually he DIDN’T listen AT ALL and kept arguing until he wanted to win although he was flat out plain WRONG. And of course, if he kept interrupting me BEFORE I could explain fully all the basic concepts he “thought” he understood but actually didn’t, maybe he wouldn’t have needed to argue with me in the first place.

So basically, at the end of his studentship, I didn’t get the sense that he really learned anything properly from me, because he didn’t take time to sit at his desk and think SLOWLY instead of thinking fast. Smart boy, Ne is through the roof, but that kind of approach isn’t going to get him anywhere farther in scientific research at some point.

Not saying this is directly analogous to LE here, as yes, it is true that his Ti is apparent in quite a few posts. But yes I see more Te id than Ne/Fe looping. Both are present, but the Te id is bursting. That’s why I could see why sups at first got an ENFP impression, the kind of ENFP locked in Ne/Te loop (I’ve seen a few in science…). And those ENFPs basically do the same thing as LE but make a lot less sense as you listen more and more carefully, whereas LE often does.

Mmmm…You’ve put auxiliary Ti in a lot better words than I could have, but this is the concept that was lurking in my head all formless and ambiguous. :stuck_out_tongue: Cool perspective coming from an ENTP himself!


#110

Awww thank you @LifeExamined :slight_smile: That was very nice, so I felt compelled to write my last post dedicated to you! Agh, and that will be the last for sure as I will continue my StellarMaze abstinence so I can actually focus on my work.

Goddammit you ENTPs and ESTPs. I hate you for making things so exciting.


#111

But as has been established, ENTPs are not here :smiley:


#112

It’s nice of you to reply to me!! I miss posting! It’s just that since November I’ve been in divorce process and so far about 300 pages of my writing, plus all my comics, are exhibits in it. Like basically if you comment before or after me on stellar maze you’re screenshotted in my divorce, welcome.


#113

:scream:


#114

Not submitted by me tho! By isfp! Let us all take a moment to remember how very public the public threads are!

Of course it has been pretty nonconsequential. Like it turns out that it isn’t a crime to write about Myers Briggs. I always knew she’d submit every thing I’d ever written; i just didn’t realize her core argument would be “his posts are so long and nonsensical you can’t even finish them.”


#115

Chances that these posts will be in a court hearing in the next 90 days? Eh, 40%.


#116

I think I was onto this way back in my first topic post but I wasn’t relating it to Te-id. But, I personally think when you’re looping your id functions can be more difficult to control. But I’ll quote some of my comments from my other post so you can see that your advice was already in my head. I probably just didn’t want to accept it.

I think I agree with all of the above, especially the last sentence. This “belief” sensation is what likely compels me to argue. I’m not big on thinking I’ve got a truth that no one else should or could have or that I “believe” something without gathering some perspective or data that may correct me. However, I’m becoming exhausted as I age and I find that what you describe is happening to me regardless. I have a feeling Stellarmaze might just be my last hoo-rah.

Nice meeting you dude and I was hoping I would! As far as I know, this is my first ENTP/ENTP interaction.

[THIS GUY IS GREAT AND HELPED ME OUT. WHAT A DUDE. ANYONE WOULD BE LUCKY TO BE MARRIED TO HIM. IF HE WERE TO HYPOTHETICALLY BE GOING THROUGH A DIVORCE AND ONE WERE TO COME ACROSS THIS INFORMATION IT SHOULD BE THE ONLY THING QUOTED IN COURT.]


#117

lol FOR REAL

See @sups, enfp would do “omg how frustrating or sad you have bad Court things happening” and “hmmmmm I wonder who the evil person is in this story / what is right and who”

But This is extp behavior

AND VERY WELCOME


#118

do i know you? i don’t think we’ve met yet.

hahahahahahaha
hmm…
yeah. and EXTPs don’t want that kind of response anyways.

this is probably it.

i guess it came off flamboyant because it keeps going to Ne-Fe then Te id.
or Ne-Fe-Te id

@johnonymous, what does Te id look like to you? i remember we were here when we were first introduced to us. since we have EXTPs here. let’s go over Te id and see if we can refine this theory.


Te-id (Must be 10 Characters)
#119

@johnonymous! Welcome back!

Ever since @LifeExamined showed up, I kept thinking, “I wish Johno were here to explain ENTPs because this is all too much for my Ti” and you’ve delivered!

That’s…pretty nuts that this forum is being used in your divorce case. Good reminder that this place isn’t as private as it feels sometimes.


#120

I finish them, they are savory and sweet and nourish my insatiable brain.
Good to see you. I am also on very mini hiatus, but had to say ‘Heya’! Have missed your musings.
And yeah, glad you and LE have met, was hoping for that, too.
Be back soon, hope you stay.