What do you think about the erotic behavior groups theory in Socionics? It describes how people are sexually in a relationship and which types they sexually have the most chemistry or natural sexual interaction with longterm.
There is the question then of how much importance each type places on sexual relationships / sex.
I don’t really fall into the “victim” category so to say. I definitely see myself carrying out the “careful” type approach to my relationship patterns. Perhaps it’s just my assertiveness.
It sounds like bullshit to me.
A lot of these Socionics categories put too much emphasis on the specific function (Ti vs Te) rather than the function as a whole (Thinking). It also fails to account for the position on “the stack” (dominant, auxiliary, id, vs inferior, tertiary, superego), which is far far more important.
So it creates these weird distortions like INFPs being more similar to ESTJs than INFJs and so on. Which is ridiculous. Keirsey’s categories make a lot more sense (though I don’t know why he grouped SPs and SJs rather than SFs and STs, but whatever).
I also think attraction and relationship compatibility isn’t really based on type. Economic class, physical qualities (related to type, but also not really) and personal history play significantly greater roles than the specific types of the individuals involved. But that’s a whole other story.
I’m halfway between its bullshit and it being legit. Socionics puts a lot of weight on the concept of The Dual being the ideal relationship (one’s Dual is their exact opposite).
(Also please keep in mind that Socionics assigns J/P preference based on the dominant function, therefore, an INFP in their system will be an INFJ in Myers-Briggs and so on. All the introverts are affected by this in their system, so you have to switch the J/P preference for each introverted type to yield the commensurate Myers-Briggs type)
So, anyway, back to Duality or The Dual. The Relations of Duality is considered The Ideal Relationship in Socionics.
And I can see what they are getting at and why that would be so. In theory it makes sense.
However, more savvily, I would say Relations of Duality are perfect for marriage compatibility. What this means is that the two people (all other things being equal, like good astrological compatibility in this regard as well) who have Duality as their natural relations will be good at spending a lot of time together and work well as a team.
This doesn’t have much to do with Erotic Behavior. And what I assume that this means is sexual compatibility, ie who each type will be most attracted to sexually.
There is an answer to this, however, from looking at the four categories in the linked chart, I immediately see problems.
So, what’s going on is that the types that are most erotically compatible with each other share the Si/Ne axis preference (Careful types with the Infantile types respectively) or the Se/Ni axis preference (Aggressor types with the Victim types respectively).
Yeah, there is something to that. Definitely.
However, what I’ve noticed is types that have the most EROTIC compatibility are the ones that flip the I/E and J/P dichotomies of a type.
This is also considered more The Ideal Relationship in Myers-Briggs and is based on the 5th function (+ the id function), rather than the inferior function (4th function).
So, I’m kinda halfway between these systems. I agree with both in the sense of The Ideal Relationship, but one would be more of an Ideal Marriage and the other would be more of an Ideal Mistress or Master type relationship and those two compatibilities are pretty separate. It’s the difference between the 7th and the 8th house in astrology. It’s the difference between Libra and Scorpio. Very different, but both relationship-oriented.
I would say what kind of relationship are we talking about? If we’re talking marriage (7th house), that requires a certain kind of compatibility that doesn’t have to be, nor is it often wise, for there to be a lot of passion and eroticism (8th house).
If you want deep soul merger, then go for the 8th house type relationship, which I would term as having the most erotic potential from the way I understand the term.
So, since I know someone’s going to ask me, here are the matchups for the greatest erotic potential in the Myers-Briggs system:
INFJ —> ENFP
INTJ —> ENTP
ENFJ —> INFP
ESFJ —> ISFP
INTP —> ENTJ
ISTP —> ESTJ
ESTP —> ISTJ
ESFP —> ISFJ
(You just flip the 1st and the 4th letter of the type code to arrive at your fullest erotic potential. These are also considered soul mate relationships. I would consider them 8th house or Scorpio-type relationships).
I remembered you said the best partner for INFJ is ENTP. Here you claim the ideal marriage partner is ESTP (or the exact opposite for any other given MBTI type).
So what is the ENTP for INFJ? Are they also ideal marriage partners too? I see ENTP as best for INFJ growth (and vice versa), although many INFJ women here seemed to have problems with long-term relationships with ENTPs. I don’t think the same would apply to me, but I’ve got no proper experience to back up the claim. For some reason, ENTPs sound better than ESTPs for me. I don’t really like ESTPs. With an ESTP, I’d imagine I’d be automatically put into submissive mode, which might be somewhat relieving…but irritating at the same time. I’m too proud to submit to somebody I don’t respect. And I’ll be honest, I kind of look down on ESTPs. Too much talking, too little depth of thought. I’ll take an ENTP over ESTP any day.
What about relationships of the same type? Now that I think about it, they don’t sound good for either growth or eroticism. Although maybe it depends on the type. For example, what about ENFJ-ENFJ or INFJ-INFJ? Sounds more charged than, say, an ESTJ-ESTJ.
Is it socionics that began with the concept of information metabolism?
Was it an entp who started it?
I like their gamma, beta, delta, ?alpha? categories.
But some of the websites on socionics are hard to follow because of the j/p switch and because my god so analytical as if all interactions can be codified like gears in an engine.
I would think that the most erotic partner for an INFJ would be an ESFP. Look at @Blake’s article about INFJ-ESFP interaction. The erotic heaven/ marriage hell dichotomy. Or maybe I’m understanding it wrong?
I think that’s your answer right there schloopy. I’m not sure if Blake actually said this or I assumed (a neverending problem of mine…), but I thought ENTP was for INFJ the best compromise between ESTP ‘ideal partner’ and ENFP ‘ideal lover’. Plus the fact that there is zero risk of triggering each other’s id, which is probably one of the reasons why the choice was for ENTP rather than ESFP?
Is the specific interaction of the two (5th + 6th functions) which makes for the most erotic potential? I suppose if we had to weigh out the 5th function in isolation (ENTP+INFJ) vs the 6th function in isolation (ESFP+INFJ), then yes, @Impossibletobe, I think the id probably plays a bigger part in the attraction.
And my INFP self would prefer ENTJ over ESFJ any day.
However, it’s likely much wiser to pair feeling dom+feeling dom, intuitive dom+intuitive dom etc. in order to avoid tensions down the road. I get that.
It does seem a tricky calculus to make when some types are perceiving dom. vs. judging dom., though. Wouldn’t sharing the same judging axis make for easier communication than sharing the same perceiving axis? This works well for the ENTP+INFJ pairing, but not quite for ESFJ+INFP…
I’m pretty sure he did say this a few years ago somewhere in the comments section of one of his articles. I completely forgot about it until you just mentioned the above!
Still. I want him to put a name to the ENTP-INFJ relationship or the ESFJ-INFP relationship, and etc.
@Impossibletobe Hmm…Yeah I’m not sure! I wouldn’t have imagined ENFP to be the most erotic partner for INFJ to tell you the truth. An ESFP seems to make more sense, but I’m not sure if ESFP is the most erotic partner for INFJ either. But then what would I know? Personally, I think an INFJ man will give me what I want, emotionally/psychologically during sex. They’re probably not as physically competent though. However, I’m not engaged with the physical component during sex anyways. And I think this might be a personal thing not a general type-specific thing.
I don’t think I ever claimed that ENTP was the best “marriage” partner for INFJ, I think I said they were the most “perfect” partner, but what that meant is…theoretically, it’s the most compatible match I can imagine.
But, as you said earlier in this thread, it’s not primarily sexual. And I said this somewhere about these type of relations.
Also, as Socionics says about Dual Relations, they take the longest time to get off the ground but endure the longest. They have the most potential for longevity after maybe some possible initial wtf.
I’d agree with that and say that holds true for ENTP to INFJ type relations too. It may take awhile to gel, but once it does, it hits a nice and enduring stride, maybe even moreso than ESTP, but it’s also not as dynamic (implications of inferior function and implied opposition, which does create dynamic attraction between the sexes). There isn’t as much tension and challenge.
Maybe so, but have you ever been married to one? You might like it. I think ESTP often seems like something that an INFJ would never take seriously beyond maybe a fling or something, but they may in fact be better as marriage partners, for what marriage really is, which is really a team to raise kids together, or if not that, than a team to live together domestically in a day-to-day sense and take care of business between each other. Marriage is actually not that intimate in many ways because if it was, it’s a nightmare. Don’t confuse lover compatibility with marriage compatibility.
If we’re talking lover compatibility I’ve already said I think ENFP is best for INFJ. And I’ll throw ENFJ in there too. This would be 8th and 5th house lover compatibilities respectively. Actually, it might be better to say that ENFJ is the best lover for INFJ. 5th house love is like that stage of falling in love and all those lovely romantic projections and cream dream excellence.
If we’re talking soul mate and deep depths of my soul type compatibility, then ENFP for INFJ. These are not easy relations, but they are very erotic and charged, like to the max. Deeply. There is also hatred and fear activated as well as the depths of sexual communion and ecstasy and soul merger.
Now, getting back to ENTP. This ain’t gonna happen with them and the reason I say they are kinda perfect relations is because no id activation. Same with ESTP, but there will be sexual attraction coming from Se to Ni.
Yes, and also part of that, at least to my interpretation is the concept of DOSING, ie, how much of this other person can I stand for how long?
With Duality, the theory is that you can stand them the most (your exact opposite). It is very hard to get tired of them over time, even if initially you may find them to have zero potential or consideration for relationship, especially, a long-term one.
Actually, I think what I’m talking about is related more to Relations of Distance or Closeness. Each intertype relation has a built-in Closeness or Distance, which can either increase or diminish. For INFJ-ESTP it starts out distant and moves to increasing closeness over time until they can become the closest of any two types to each other, assuming that they get enough exposure to each other initially to even make this happen, which is a big assumption. Relations of Duality are most difficult at the outset and so it can be difficult (in theory) for partners of this type to be around each other long enough to get past the initial inviability of these relations.
I’ll tell you though, I know three E3 ENFJ women that are married to ISTP men (one of them is @Amerika)
Anyway, sorry lunar, yes info metabolism is a Socionics thing, but I’m talking about Nearness and Closeness of Relations, which seems to have something to do with metabolic rates of relationships, but it’s probaly my own usage at this point.
No, ESFP is either 2nd or 1st for erotic relations to INFJ, but with ESFP it’s almost strictly and uncompromisingly sexual, just pure nasty fuck. But there is nothing elevated or growth-oriented in that eroticism, which ENFP offers (share intuitive preference at dominant, just flipped. Everything through function stacks is same, just flipped). I dunno, there is something about ENFP for INFJ that the ESFP just can’t even begin to offer. There is much more depth potential to the relationship, and perhaps, the deepest possible relationship an INFJ could ever have would be to ENFP. That doesn’t mean it will take at the outset, or be even recognized in external forms such as marriage and living together, but the shit has some erotic depths that are unparalleled. This doesn’t mean they will likely like each other in a superficial sense either. All their valued functions are different. They may even hate each other. All I’m saying is that whatever the deeper meaning of sex is beyond the physical plane (astral, soul-level, energy body), the ENFP and INFJ will meet here most perfectly.
Also, one must remember that the sexual and erotic drives are not based solely, or maybe even mostly, on “liking” each other. There is some deep shit that needs to get worked out there and it ain’t all roses and sunshine.
Man, I’m getting horny…
Jesus. Thank you so much. What a reply.
With regards to same-type relations, you’ve said: “The only type that could meet an INFJ at their id and probably satisfy that deep longing is another INFJ. This is liable to be one of the love relationships of epic order.” You’ve also said that the ideal lover of an E3 ENFJ is the E8 ENFJ devil lover.
Do you rescind these claims or am I missing a subtlety here?
I just want some clarification that’s all.
OK, I was about to edit or add to my reply above to same type relations being lacking in growth or eroticism…
Yes, it is true that 2 lovely motherfucking INFJs can experience some deep soul merger with each other. However, they will take each other to the motherfucking floor of existence with this merger. So, yes, it can be a very deep and absolutely soul-filled erotic connection but it will cause disintegration rather than…um, growth.
So it’s not like there is no sexual erotic chemistry between 2 INFJs, don’t want to give that impression. It’s just not incredibly helpful.
And yes, I did want to talk about the particular nuance of E3 ENFJ to E8 ENFJ erotic relations. The type to most satisfy an E3 ENFJ erotically is an E8 ENFJ. Maybe the only type that can satisfy her. They are like the feminine and masculine versions of each other.
For marriage though, well like I said, they tend to marry ISTP men (E3 ENFJ women). And they are all still longing for the devil lover, however they live well with ISTP men. For marriage and what marriage implies.
And if society wasn’t so stupid, they would let these sirens have their way whilst still being married and not have to see it as infidelity and breach of contract. Stupid. These women really suffer on this account.
You must let a siren be a siren. The men that marry them should be educated in this regard. And I’d say that ISTP men make good marriage partners for her.
But, not lovers
Interesting. My first boyfriend was estj. I won’t say anything about it.
You should have married him you dumbfuck!
So, in summation, I can’t completely assent to that ordering because ENFP would be considered a bad erotic relation for INFJ, for instance, and that don’t square with my experience.
ESFP, however, is in there for INFJ. And that does add up.
ENFJ is in the same category (Victim) as INFJ. Not so sure about that. And how the fuck is ENTJ in the Victim category??
ESTP is not so much erotic for INFJ as complementary. See, I think the thing is that I see id activation as an important component of eroticism, especially an Fi id. And the inferior would be activated too.
So, ISFP would be in there for INFJ. Check.
ISTP is in there too. However, I see ISTP as being good friendship material for INFJ.
So, to use INFJ as an example (since I’m doing that anyway), it seems the types they are most attracted to are
Whether this is more for marriage or sexual compatibility there is an attraction to extraverts.
All of them have extraverted perceiving dominant function with exception of ENFJ.
None of these extraverts have Si preferences except ENFP, which, in any case, has it inferior.
I think the types that have the least sexual chemistry are opposite functions, same attitude:
Ni —> Si
Ne —> Se
Te —> Fe
Ti —> Fi
Moreover, I think these types have the least compatibility, period.
Obviously, exact opposite functions are dynamically attracted to each other. One might say these are the genesis of marriage compatibility. There is some sexual attraction built-in to these.
Lastly, functions that are in the same function, opposite attitude, this might create erotic tension. It’s like they are two pieces of the same puzzle, one introverted, the other extraverted. There is familiarity and intimacy but tension from opposing attitudes. And they aren’t really friendly.
What I’m saying is they have to fuck each other. Only way to resolve the tension. They can’t be friends, but they are intimate. You leaving me no choices here, baby!
Life’s a total mess in other words.
Well yes, but no, that is, I think I disagree.