Travel away and enjoy!
Btw, what a cute camel. I live for cuteness.
Travel away and enjoy!
Btw, what a cute camel. I live for cuteness.
Whutts-a-matta wid me?
Wudda-fucks-a-matta wid you, homes?
That’s really common. A LOT of ENTPs marry ISFJs and my first was an ESTP. But it seems more of a initial attraction than one that works through the years.
I think so too. I had that in a deleted comment above. When your’e younger and just being instinctive.
Oh hmm. I think I’ve always been instinctively attracted to ENFPs and ENTPs since a young age. My first “boyfriend,” AKA holding hands and AIM’ing (LOL does anybody even remember that?!), was a pretty boy ENFP who some people thought was a pretty girl in pictures. No, he was a dude. I’ve always instinctively liked very pretty boys or clowns. Tousled hair, oh yay! Really stands out for me.
Not once have I ever been attracted to an ESTP. I’ve had a date with one, though, and he kinda took the lead pretty aggressively (and refreshingly) throughout the way. From that one instance, I can understand the compatibility between ESTP and INFJ. It feels like I don’t have to lift a single finger to get along with an ESTP. He’s taking the fucking lead the entire time anyways. Meanwhile, I stay passive, which feels somewhat relieving. I can even go to la la land, and it’ll be alright, 'cause he won’t notice or he does but he will keep taking the lead anyways.
Of course I rejected him in the end anyways because he wasn’t smart enough and his arrogant playboy tactics annoyed me.
Yeah…but how do I explain this ESTP-INFJ dynamic. They Fe in a way that is very apparent and annoying on my side but in a manner that allows shit to get done. Agh. Like shoving a spoon of food into my mouth. I pick up on the Fe manipulative tactic right away but they execute in a way in which I am forced to reciprocate back. I would feel the pressure looming to just respond right away. My thinking, repressed at the moment - Ni thrown out the window. Then voila, done deal! However, I’d be left annoyed and cheated.
Nonetheless, I will say that nowadays I find Te to be very refreshing and instantly attractive. Te from any T-types. Like a breath of fresh air. I like INFJ men that pretend to be T-type men too, that’s also hawt. All that complex repression of his inner femininity gives me a psychological boner. One INFJ man was very rough with me while having an intellectual discussion. I could tell he did this partly out of insecurity, which drove me even crazier! Oh, and older men too. If he’s in power, that’s even better…Oh fuck, just SHTAHP it schloopy. Jesus Christ.
Anyways, yeah, but Blake be right. ESTP men probably make reliable marriage partners. I think they need to reach a certain age though. I would say they seem pretty dependable, well-rounded, competent at many things, and diplomatic. Can fool others into thinking they are “nice.” They lack sincerity, though. But I suppose that could be a good thing for INFJs! Whatever it is, they are proper vanilla. Everybody likes vanilla. 'Cept for me.
your energy is amped:)
I hope you’re not building up for a dramatic leave, schlopadoo. Narrow is the bridge between the amped and the swamped in das INFJ-Land.
Reading your posts never gets boring though.
I know a reverse couple as well. The late husband was INFP: religious leader of a “pagan” movement, radiating peaceful kindness all around him. Also had a twisted sense of humour (Ni id). His ESTJ wife: the engine of the organization, taking care of business and her husband’s legacy. Always regarding people as variables in her equations. Doesn’t like it when INFJs don’t fit.
It’s in my list of tasks. When Te will meet my Fe, you’ll get your answers!
Take your time! No pressure at all.
The INFJ mind reads the INFJ mind! It has been a stormy week actually. And I’m glad someone doesn’t find my drivel boring! Nowadays, I go on the Maze to let my mind rest and take dumps of cluttered thoughts here and there, stream-of-consciousness style.
Great, keep up the popping & pooping!
I have always had a physical attraction to ESTP men. Every single one I have come to know finds the way my body smells incredibly intoxicating, sexy, and irresistible. I had a male ESTP co-worker who could not be alone in the lab with me because it was too difficult. They are the only type of guy who I’ve ever had say this to me, but four of them have and this was just in normal interaction–I didn’t date all of them. It’s the only type I’ve found so far that I feel completely body comfortable with during sex.
I connect to ESTPs with my body and heart and ENTPs with my mind and soul.
I don’t doubt your attraction for ESTPs and vice versa. I bet you are very sexy and feminine, giving off the perfect victim vibes ESTP men are craving for.
For some reason, I don’t really like ESTPs. Must be a peculiarity of mine, although perhaps I just need to give it some time. Right now, I’m generally only in contact with young ESTP men, like mid-20s or less. They are incredibly immature, partly due to age and perhaps partly due to the generational influence. Most ESTP men I know of this age are a bit Justin Bieber-ish. They seem like perfect, well-rounded males until they get so obviously defensive whenever I correct them on something or show a bit of competence that they know they can’t compete with. In fact, it seems like men of the “masculine” MBTI types of this generation ALL get defensive and insecure around me. This is such a huge turn-off. Can’t tolerate a competent woman? Can’t tolerate being wrong or not knowing something a woman doesn’t know? I didn’t think such men existed until I encountered them myself during my work life. I definitely don’t need such males in my life. I will bat them down mercilessly while they whine about how they don’t like aggressive women. Like, I was being aggressive because I was just assertively asking a question about how some feature works? Fuck off. Nope, it’s not me. It’s them. They need to man up. I prefer the more “neutered” males these days, like INTPs or ENTPs for example. They are more tolerant of competent women and aren’t afraid to learn something new.
Outside of the work context, things are a bit different. Perhaps appearance-wise, I attract a lot of Se-type men. I don’t like them, but they like me physically. The older xSTP men definitely leer at me without any shame. But I thought they would do this to any young woman with at least a decent body. Or maybe I give off feminine victim vibes? In any case, I could imagine older ESTP men would probably have no problems tolerating an assertive woman. The younger men though? They’re fucked. So insecure, easily hurt, and defensive. Nope, don’t need 'em.
I remember Camille Pagila (who I really resonate with and consider to be one of my “spiritual sisters”) once was going on about how all the weak males of her academic department couldn’t stand her because of her assertiveness, but the strong car mechanics just thought she was cute. I found that funny. It’s not completely analogous to my situation, but as someone who comes off at least partly male in certain contexts, it is funny to see, like her, just how weak males are these days. I’m sure their weakness has something to do with the lack of mutual attraction between me and young ESTPs. I intimidate them too easily.
Edit: Oh yeah. And what I said probably seems ironic considering how I said I prefer pretty males. To explicate, I prefer feminine males who don’t pretend to be so masculine, as that’s better than being supposedly “masculine” yet weak on the inside. Plus, I think I am at least half-male pscyhologically. Part of me wants to be the Angel saves, the other half wants a male Angel to save me. I would say the latter is naturally at the forefront while the former is something I try to repress.
This is really interesting. I don’t like ENTPs or ESTPs under about age 35. They lack discipline and often make a bit of a mess of their lives. The ones I get along with (males and females) are either those born earlier than 1980 or then those born into very conservative/traditional households or are immigrants. Since I don’t really have any competing skills with them when working, we seem to get along ok at work. I do project management/financing/directing and they do the lab/design/test work. But I’ve never been in a position of less authority than them so I don’t know how that would be–they need to be overriden in their big picture decisions since they are generally wrong there. The ones that become insecure working with me are ISTPs–I’ve had them really try to hurt my career because they feel threatened by my competence. They can never understand why or how I am successful since they see my use of logic as inferior and logic is what should make a person successful (eyeroll).
The older ESTPs I know crave assertive women, but ones that don’t threaten their dominance or social standing. They create a certain social structure and need a woman that merges into that as sort of a right hand. Usually they are proud of me being successful mainly because it’s in areas that don’t compete with their strengths. But I do find that the way my brain works can make them feel insecure on a personal level–I think my body/looks makes ENTPs feel insecure about me leaving or sexually and my brain/intuition/insights can make ESTPs feel insecure.
ESTPs come across to me as being much more masculine than ENTPs. Maybe it’s the Se and when they are older, they are so good with women that they become very confident. They immediately feel a strong need to dominate and “own” me, but not in an insecure lock-you-in-a-closet type of way that drives me away. The way we interact is just simply very instinctively sexual. I really enjoy the company of INTPs and INFPs a lot, I just find them too feminine for me and I end up running over them in relationships so they don’t work since I can’t respect anyone that isn’t stronger than me through Se or Ne or Te. I also feel like I’m dating a woman, and I’m not attracted to “neutered” males. ENTPs are the weakest masculine types I’m attracted to–I like the ENTJs that I know.
The problem is that ESTPs don’t make me grow. They make me want to settle down and be a family or something, they can make me feel secure and stable (weird I know for the type, but I tend to inspire them to want to make a permanent commitment to me), but they don’t make me grow exponentially like an ENTP can. If anything, they make me want to save them through Ni–give them some direction/big picture orientation, inspiration, meaning. They worship me in a way.
I have a question: do you want to be saved through Se? Like being taken care of financially/physically/etc? And how do you want to save? Through Ni–helping someone find direction/meaning/getting their life together?
Fascinating insights! Your observations are probably more representative of the typical INFJ. I haven’t mingled around long enough to be sure of my current impressions. However, being an ESTP’s right hand/second-in-command sure incites some rebelliousness inside me…
Maybe I do want to be “saved” through Se. I’m not sure. I definitely need some help in the physical and domestic department. Financially…? Maybe… If I continue in the field I am in, I will definitely not earn enough money to be comfortable enough. I will be playing a very risky game too to gain the coveted prize (tenureship) in the academic pipeline. Only 1% makes it, and often competence has very little to do with it. It’s like winning the lottery. So perhaps I need to be helped financially as well. I know plenty of academics who live comfortably either due to old money or marriage to a rich spouse.
Then there is the other part of being “saved,” which is the sort that I’ve alluded to in my previous post. I have a nasty side of myself (Fi) that needs to be purged. I need someone who I can come clean with. Otherwise it becomes too much to bear. I’ve had one really nasty moment several months ago that seemed to have “unplugged” at least one pipe of the many metaphorical pipes that exist within my soul. I became much happier, which freed up my will to live and allowed me to think more clearly. So I’m not sure which one I consider more important. Healing of the soul or having a daddy who will take care of me.
And how do I want to save? Through multiple ways I guess. Ni, yes, I suppose. And Fe. Basically through listening and giving advice. I think there is the other part of me that wants to save someone through sexual submission (Fi), and well, through general submissive behavior. However, sexual submission can be healing and counterproductive at the same time. A very thin line between those two. I would say it is more counterproductive for me in the long run.
My life calling seems to ask me to fight the direction most people would normally go in. That is to fight my women’s instincts but save just a few to keep myself sane. The problem is finding that sweet spot. And I need a partner who will help me in this goal. But not many men would probably be willing to help.