Here's the thing about ENFP


#1

Quote from Socionics site about superego functions, bold mine:

“People rarely appreciate direct commentary and analysis of their Super-Ego function behavior except by highly trusted friends. Otherwise, they tend to automatically suspect ill will towards them. Criticism of these aspects of a person’s life can produce long-lasting animosity. The person may either vehemently defend himself (too vehemently given the nature of the criticism) or close up and ruminate about the situation for days. Outright praise, on the other hand, produces an unexpected self-esteem boost.”

Superego functions for ENFP are:

Se, Ti

like Sup e rNoc T(i) rnal, resident ESTP, who is quite impressive in his ability to, creepily, grab a bunch of your historical posts, slice them for evidence, present it with some key observations, and type yer ass.

A highly developed ESTP is also basically the same thing as a highly developed INFJ–they are each others axial pole partners. Ni/Se, Ti/Fe.

Meanwhile, all of the ENFPs functions (Ne/Si, Fi/Te,) are either undervalued or live in basically dangerous positions for most of the folks here, and so it’s very difficult to actually imagine being an ENFP without feeling like you’ve gone down some kind of bad rabbit hole. This is just bad imagination.

And it’s pretty easy to criticize the ENFP as bad at typology, because they don’t believe in it, and it’s super vulnerable feeling to be told that there is this thing that is visible to people and not visible to you. I mean, it’s vulnerable enough feeling to be ANYBODY having your superego functions paraded around as super critical, but imagine if your superego functions, and specifically your MOST vulnerable position, is that center of inexplicable and unique human experience called Fi?

Hell, I’ll let anyone besides me imagine it because I only believe it can possibly be what its described as because I can’t imagine a model with just 7 functions – otherwise I’d be like “Yeah that just doesn’t exist and what you are feeling is called being a child.” Notice the similarity to the opposite sort of critic of Ti by ENFJ (Ti inf), ENFP (Ti superego), which sounds a bit like, “this typology thing ISNT REALLY REAL, and you are being really cruel to claim that it is.”

Anyway.

So, criticizing ENFPs ability to type along the lines of some version of “You don’t observe the present moment well and you don’t differentiate data/theory well” is kinda like kicking them in the balls.


#2

Consider an ENTP being criticized for their shitty typological skills vs an ENFP being criticized for the same.

The criticism of the ENTP is going to be due to their lack of strong Se, maybe lack of reliance on Ni. That rolls off the shoulders just fine. Meanwhile, Ti kicks in and sees the critique and finds the accuracy and is like “Yeah, ur right, you win that one.”

the headline for the audience is: “Oh, ENTPS ARE SELF AWARE”

MEanwhile, for ENFP, the criticism is likely going to be due to their lack of Se, lack of reliance on Ni, and lack of Ti. That doesn’t really roll off the shoulders because Fi is going to interpret the criticism with less fine slicing of what is actually being criticized, triggering broad feelings of negativity. Then Fi kicks in even more, arguing for its own humanity, which, to the observer, will feel like a derailing of the criticism in general and some sort of “making it about them” which looks from the outside like the opposite of empathy.

The headline for the audience is “OH,
ENFPS ARE HYPERSENSITIVE AND NOT SELF AWARE.”

Entp and Enfp of equivalent development will basically get a pass and get shade respectively, based on equivalent reactions and behavior with different function placements in their respective stacks.

Empathy: @carolina described it as the essence of humanity. For the ENTP, it definitely isn’t. Like a friend of mine who is a pastor once observed about me and I kinda think accurately: “You think that people will avoid evil if they think a bit more.” I would say that good thinking is the essence of humanity.

And I’d probably be wrong.

But that’s all to say, the ENFP is particulary vulnerable. Fi feels like it understands everyything and looks like it understands nothing. Ne sees all the things but doesn’t have time to tell about it. A very vulnerable set of strengths on a forum like this.


#4

A logical error risen from mixing up the Enfps most vulnerable function Ti and aux function Fi makes my post above mostly useless but good job anybody who understood it…

To rephrase–it would be extra hard having superego criticized if your most vulnerable function is Ti, so you are being told you’re basically not a great “thinker” and “oh but you aren’t really gonna ever understand why, bad thinker that you are,” and meanwhile your personal development in many ways hinges on gaining comfort with and reliance on Fi, which is almost not ever going to be able to decipher such superego criticism in a not-insulting way.


#5

Piggy backing off posts already deleted by Wendy,

Yeah it’s true most of mbti land is not anti Enfp, but that land sees Enfp as primarily “Intuitive feelers” so they are understood as similar to all other xNFx; stellarmaze I think understands type more in the context of “what is the directional dispoSition of their intuition”


#6

Did supernocturnal buy extra likes somehow?

New revenue model for StellarMaze

$1.99 10 extra likes per week
$4.99 30 extra likes per week that’s 5 bonus likes at the standard exchange rate
$44.99 300 extra likes per week that’s like mega bulk saving on likes


#7

An astute analysis, @johnonymous

I missed most of the recent ENFP conversations due to a busy work schedule, but I have more friends of that type than any other. Over the years, I have developed a great deal of understanding and appreciation for ENFPs; this includes their strengths and positive qualities as well as their type-related struggles and weak spots.

Last Saturday I actually did some counselling for a close ENFP friend who is having a very tough year, both professionally and personally. By a remarkable synchronicity, she is also an astrological Libra, with no less than Sun, Mercury, Venus, Uranus and Pluto in Libra, and most of the remaining planets in Air signs.

This planetary set-up serves to skew her innate ENFP type towards the Thinking functions and this is reflected in an overuse of Te and a vulnerability in anything related to Ti. Her Saturn (the superego planet) is in the early part of Gemini (corresponding to Ti), so the astrology here reinforces the Ti superego of an ENFP.

When I pointed out this via her birthchart, she confided to never feeling smart enough in her areas of expertise, and therefore was prone to extreme intellectual perfectionism to try and compensate. I’ve seen a similar dynamic in most of my ENFP friends; all of whom are highly intelligent and perceptive, but struggle to be taken seriously in the Thinking-dominated modern workplace.

When Ti is in the Superego position, it typically manifests as a critical internal voice that can be directed outwards at the environment or other people or (more commonly) inwards towards what it sees as the failings of the immoral Id or the flawed and imperfect Ego. Both the Id and the Superego reside mainly in the unconscious, and neither are in touch with the demands and restrictions of actual reality. It is the job of the Ego to try and balance the demands of the insatiable Id and the moralistic perfectionism of the Superego with the available resources and limitations imposed by external reality.

It is a difficult and thankless job indeed, and if the psychological dynamics of this universal human struggle remain buried in the unconscious, it is also utterly futile, and is the cause of much human suffering. The Superego is psychically much weaker than the instinctual Id, and so must resort to mental trickery and emotional manipulation to seize control of the Ego. It holds up the promise of that powerful feeling of moral or spiritual superiority and purity when the Ego surrenders to its restrictions and does exactly as it is told. Conversely it resorts to the negative emotions of guilt, shame and fear when the Id has the upper hand over the ego.

With a Ti-based Superego, fear is easier to access than guilt or shame (which are more attuned to Feeling). Intense use of the thinking function in any type invokes certain neural pathways and neurotransmitters to stimulate the higher cognitive regions of the brain, increasing alertness, attention, vigilance and mental arousal. The flipside is increased anxiety or even paranoia due to the effects of elevated levels of the neurotransmitter noradrenaline, which activates the body’s fight or flight response. When Ti is poorly developed or unconscious, it is much more likely to over-rely upon noradrenaline and the fear response to become activated, in contrast to the cool-headed calmness of healthy or developed conscious Ti.

To summarise, too much unhealthy activation of Ti leads to excessive anxiety, and obsessive spiralling thoughts that make it impossible to relax or sleep properly. An ENFP in this state is suffering mightily, and their distress is made worse because their typological nature is such that they are usually unable to contain or conceal their anxieties and paranoias from others. This is probably why they have acquired a reputation as extreme drama queens when stressed.

But if they do somehow manage to contain or conceal their mounting anxiety, the outcome can be even worse for them in the long term, because sooner or later the strain of pretending to be happy will drain their mental and physical reserves, leading inevitably to a collapse into serious depression and physical exhaustion.

My friend had suffered this fate to a degree, but she is already bouncing back and preparing to go back out into the world (lessons hopefully learned) propelled by that unsinkable ENFP optimism and positive attitude.


#8

As Fi-dom, I confess to not being able to see at all how @Carolina was “making it all about herself”. I personally think that if you are holding your own on a forum where there are 1 enfp, then that’s already someone not making it about herself. That person is mostly engaged in non-enfp. Maybe it’s my lack of Ti or “selfish” Fi. But the way my Ne was reading it, us writing crap such as enfp not having empathy is what triggered her to speak up. It’s kind of like saying one of the gifts that enfps do offer doesn’t even exist. Exactly as she said. I’m really lost how her reaction to a whole series of enfp-bashing can be seen as anything but completely natural.

This entire stellarmaze has an implied hierarchy of types… yes it does. So people are gonna also react according to the implied valuations of the types. It’s a build up (unless you know I am mental and so this is a figment of my imagination. and i am mental that much i actually know).

It kind of goes:

  1. infjs are gods (picture like human forms, but the forms are much larger than the rest of humans, like Greek gods depicted, other little humans walking between legs of the giants) and who the maze is actually for (remember the THS episode where Blake literally says “oh and infjs don’t think I had forgotten you” which sounds a bit like a joke on itself but still…it was uttered)(Edit: amazing the nonsense out of my mouth…the maze is inclusive and clearly for everyone)
  2. intjs are geniuses (and enfjs are sexy artists)
  3. entps are remarkable creatures

(I want to say there is a sort of ending right here but it’s arbitrary, I think the hierarchy is actually a bit vaguer I’m exaggerating…)

Then the leftovers…


n. Si is yucky



I don’t think people “lower down” on this pole really experience the maze the same way as people “higher up”. (Edit: might have typed this from inside a loony bin) And it probably can’t be helped due to numbers/preferences/etc. Blake says to let the bias ring out. (but keep his type secret yet brag about it…how did I get into this business one day I came out as NOYFB).

This post started in one place and finished in another.


#9

An ENFP “makes it all about themselves” by grabbing a tangent no one was that invested in or cared too much about, zeroing in on it, and throwing a tantrum over it, thus pivoting the entire conversation to focus on them and forcing the whole thing to turn into an assuaging of their feelings.

I hate to be That Person and be like, “haha typical ENFP” but, alas, for that really is typical ENFP. :wink: (Winky face to make my comments more palatable, I hope!)

Anyway, INFPs tend not to notice this in ENFPs. Because like Blake says, they are the most genuinely kind and guileless of all the types. INFPs and ENFPs tend to get along really well, I think.

INxJs DO notice and get annoyed because we are “seriously jerks” and all.

The thing is other types tend not to notice so much and/or aren’t bothered by it. So if we’re looking in the grand context of “everything” (or whatever) yes, we look like jerks.

Hey, ENFPs are probably the happiest overall of all the N-types (barring ENTJs) so really, they have it quite good I think. We’re all just having fun here, and this is heavily Ni-dom-dominated space, which means unpleasant observations are going to come out but they come out equally about everyone so why should ENFPs be the exception to the MBTI type draggings?

If INxJs have unpleasant or annoying experiences with ENFPs, as a type, and we want to lightheartedly gripe and grump about those experiences, so what. We do that about all the other types too. Stellarmaze puts everyone’s type through the wringer. I am baffled (but not surprised) that ENFs seem to think they should be the exception just because it’s unpleasant and they don’t like it. To an INxJ that looks 1. illogical and 2. entitled.


#10

Yeah. I guess as an Fi-dom I am just too familiar with “lashing out” when defensive. So I just saw that wording as “oh this person is hurt”. And then I was like oh my god…“I wrote enfps don’t have empathy”. Oh my god!! I guess you are suggesting there is a subtlety there I don’t see. Like a false preacher mixed in to it or something. I’m not completely catching the whiff in the here context.

I do see in enfp a tendency of the “take-down” of others. For example, my brother will champion something and suddenly “switch” into a take down. Guess it’s the whole Te tertiary. That is the ordering language becoming the “method” but fueled by Fi and Fe (charged or suddenly inspired yet becoming militant). So it’s not gonna be pretty. Is that what you mean?

I think my Ti is also weak. So things will appear without measure. Difficult to weigh if it’s a tangent.

It’s great we’re not all the same. I really love seeing how others see this kind of thing as a tantrum. It’s sobering:)

I hadn’t noticed this. I’m amazed by what infjs or others see. We just don’t always see the same thing different types.


#11

Also I get extremely ??? when people are like “aghhh people here take MBTI too seriously!!!”

This is literally an MBTI website. What…what do you think people come here to discuss…?

I also think people might get the impression that the INFJs here walk around typing every individual person they meet and JUDGING THEM based on THEIR TYPE and that’s not the case. Like…relax.

Yeah we’re dragging types but that doesn’t mean we can’t or don’t look at individual people and gauge them as individuals.

Caveat: if you’re going to exhibit the worst stereotypes of your type on the forum, then blow a gasket because people on the forum note that you’re exhibiting the worst stereotypes of your type… ??? I don’t even know what to tell you.


#12

Well let me lay out what happened in a nice timeline:

  1. thread about blake that was original split off from another thread because SOME PEOPLE WENT OFF TOPIC AND TRIED TO TYPE BLAKE
  2. people throw out some guesses and explanations
  3. erika comes in to say ENFP as a joke because she hungry for attention again lol
  4. some people latch onto it, especially lunar!
  5. debate ensues abotu specially why blake is likely not enfp
  6. carolina decides this whoel thread is about bullying enfp and is mad/sad/feeling so attacked right now

SERIOUS MORALIZING IN MY CELEBRITY MBTI THREAD? IT’S MORE LIKELY THAN YOU THINK!

  1. line up of people apologize to carolina and give anecdotes about how great enfp are
  2. carolina is happy for petting and attention because she is enfp but also humblebrags and decides who did and did not offend her and lectures about “how to properly mbti” because she is enfp
  3. prax decides throw thread into fire because it isn’t about blake being enfp or any other mbti, but it became about apologizing to carolina as a stand in for all enfp apparently

ALTERNATE PURGATORY TITLE:
Fe-id in motion: Can we all take a moment to appreciate who the real victim in all this is? Me.

You may notice this is a theme on such ENFP spaces such as tumblr or general fandom. People try to find a way to wedge themselves into issues by moralizing or something, when half the time it’s virtue-signalling (aka, look how enlightened and a good person i am. please applause). This is Fe-id hijacking Fi most likely. But whatever it is, it’s annoying to me, and probably INFJ find it like… infantile and intellectually bankrupt because it’s a bit conniving in not so much a malicious way, but an exhausting “baby throw naive tantrum” way (and INFJ know a thing or two about being emotional babies with Fi-id fuelling hijacking Fe posturings–INFJ just happen to be able to be more consciously malicious lol!).


#13

Okay to be fair ENFJs tend to be a bit more indignant not out of personal offense but like a “getting offended for the sake of The Group” or something.

FPs are the ones who will take tend to stuff as “this is wrong and bad because it hurts my feelings and I don’t like it and that means it’s wrong and bad”.

Which I guess isn’t necessarily (???) an “incorrect” view of things, because yeah it’s all relative and subjective, blah blah blah. It’s just that to anyone with Ti higher in their function stack, this method of “reasoning” often looks uhhhhhhh really goofy.

Insert usual disclaimer of “yes this is all generalizations I’m not saying every single FP is like this etc. etc.”

MBTI itself is a system of generalizations so how 'bout we all agree not take generalizing about types personally. Because it’s not personal. Until you make it so.


#14

whatever you do at Wendy at lunar please don’t delete your posts until I’m done driving, so I’m not speaking through a dictation thing and unable to read anything.


#15

hahaha:) your comments are so funny. i was very tense. then your comment was like “breeze, fresh air, comirational” (means comedic/rational, does that word come from stellar maze or does it even exist. that word just pops to my head whenever I read your posts)


#16

I wanna add one more thing before I jet off the rest of the day.

Which is that the reason a lot of INFJs have beef with ENFPs as a type is that ENFPs are a type that actually tends to get a lot closer to INFJs than other types. And INFJs are annoyed by everyone, so any one type that is around them a lot will annoy them more than other types.

So really it’s not that ENFPs are more or less annoying than other types, it’s just that longer and more proximity gives them more “history” for cranky pissy INFJs to get annoyed over.

ENFPs wouldn’t be able to get that close to INFJs in the first place if they weren’t sharper and more interesting and pleasant for us to deal with than most other types.


#17

@Wendy thanks for your perspective. i learned a lot. @Prax I am familiar with the signaling of virtues of auxiliary Fi. It can look purely craving of adulation or being seen as on the “right side” of the “battle” when the enfp is not checking in with themselves and i guess doing Ti minimums.
you guys are so subtle in what you see


#18

I agree with what you say here, in both that 1) your observation of this forum is correct (there’s an implicit if not explicit hierarchy of types and evaluations here), but also that 2) this is a good thing.

Any approach to reality, any judgement is gonna prioritise one type/function over another. It’s better to be upfront about this. I have no qualm in saying some approaches to reality are better than others. The whole is greater than the part, etc.


#19

I think the heirarchy exists in terms of functions. Which looks like this.

Methodology: Ti aux mothafuckas. JK I weighted them based on totally subjective shit, basically garbage in garbage out.

not sure why so much Te hate in my chart. Probably weighted the vulnerable function in INFJs as too muchly hated.

^ this is entp style spreadsheeting btw. Just useful for getting bosses to do what needs to be done, since nobody in business really understands statistical significance and it doesn’t therefore matter. The current obsession (fading?) with big data and data driven decision making is just an interest in pretty charts. Lol. Shifts power to someone else in the org, or gives failure new cover.


#20

love the specific numbers.
oh man oh man that is funny.
my husband’s got to see this. he’s going to laugh his head off.
(pie chart nice too:))
and you know there are different versions of laughing…
this one is the kind where there is a tickle so you got no choice:)
it’s so great
also a surprise element, you always work in something surprising:)

buahahahahaha. i know i could assign made up grades to my students (out of a hat) and just flash some really weird chart with numbers and arrows and say that’s why, and they’d buy it because “chart” teeheehee, especially with the use of a red light clicker


#21

I do see in enfp a tendency of the “take-down” of others. For example, my brother will champion something and suddenly “switch” into a take down. Guess it’s the whole Te tertiary. That is the ordering language becoming the “method” but fueled by Fi and Fe (charged or suddenly inspired yet becoming militant). So it’s not gonna be pretty. Is that what you mean?

Uhhhh yeah kind of, maybe? I’m not clear on what exactly you mean, but I think you’re maybe referring to the ENFx tendency to switch back and forth between really idealizing something/something until they feel slighted or like the person “was mean” to them, and then all of a sudden that person is a bad awful person; but then if that person says something nice to them the very next day then just as suddenly they’re back to thinking the person is awesome and lovely and wonderful.

So there’s a tendency with ENFx folks to see everything that happens to them and everything said to them in super high saturation. Like I notice with my close ENFP friend, and with my mother who was an ENFP, that if they’re recounting an experience we were both there for, they will tend to highly exaggerate what everyone said and how they said it, and they will also sincerely believe that that is exactly how everything happened.

And yeah they can get a bit militant about stuff. Kind of black-and-white thinking if their mind is set on something they consider to be a cause. I think we see this a lot in social justice warrior types (a lot of whom are ENFPs). “Bad people are bad people are bad people because they committed this political incorrectness faux pas and thus they are bad forever, end of story”. That type of thing.

Now when I said “ENFx” seem to think they’re the exception to getting their type criticized or complained about, I’m not saying they consciously think this. It’s just how it tends to plays out. I think I’ve said before somewhere that they’re like the top types to swear they can handle cold hard truths about themselves and that they love it when people “give it to them straight”, but in reality, if someone tries to take them for their word on this, they tennnnnd tooooo flip out. So as an example, in the forums here I’ll see folks dragging other, non-ENFx types on here and everyone’s cool with it - including the ENFx folks.

Like do people here start name-calling and moaning about how everyone’s a jerk if we drag INFJs? INFPs? ENTPs? INTPs? ISFPs? Nope. (Okay it has happened with INFPs a bit, but there are so dang many INFPs on here I’d say it’s a fairly small percentage who react this way.) But as soon as someone turns the spotlight on ENFx as a type, the folks of that type often seem to get outraged. Not always, obviously, but it seems to happen…uhhh, whenever anyone has anything uncomplimentary to say about ENFx as a type. So maybe I am saying always. Welp.

I just wonder how, if one got here through Blake’s articles, which are mostly really harsh and critical of ALL the types (except ISTPs and ENTPs I guess)…if you can’t take hits to your type or feel like it’s morally wrong for people to snipe at your type (when they’re not even sniping at you personally) then why are you here? And why exactly do you think your own personal type should be the exception to this?

Maybe for the sake of everyone’s peace and happiness all FPs on here should just block me or something. We can all blame @supernokturnal for unleashing my negativity back on here. smh