The ENFP bashing is honestly rude… some of you are seriously jerks. MBTI is just a tool but for some of you it has unfortunately given refuge to the worst of your judgemental impulses.
Let me take this moment to say, I have benefited from ENFPs greatly. I had a business coach who was an ENFP who was awesome. And I think my closest sister is an ENFP, and she’s incredibly successful. And the people whose podcast I most appreciate and who saved my marriage via mbti are 50% ENFP. And probably my mom is ENFP, I dunno. And all the ENFPs I know are politically conservative in the end, not SJWs, and people have a right to be SJWs anyway, and frankly, I think it’s definitely possible Blake is an ENFP, actually, and I Think it’s a valid theory to debate.
I almost @messaged you Carolina in some way that would clearly indicate I am kidding, because I don’t actually believe ENFPs are selfrighteous slippery fucks, and I started a sentence above that ended that way with intentions of pointing out that Blake (and the internets in general, but maybe especially infjs) have overly rosy views of ENTPs and, as I’ve only learned recently, overly critical views of ENFPs, and it’s really odd, so therefore, funny. But by the end of my sentence I kinda went a different direction, because I have a libra moon, which ate my Fi.
My point about physical mail stands.
I’m sorry if I came across as harsh. I use very biting language in general, so often I sound meaner than I had intended. I hope you can forgive me…
About my previous posts and some clarifications: I know my wrongs and can portray myself in the worst light. All MBTI types will have their own stale flavor when stuck in the id and tertiary. I have said it above that I like ENFPs…but I think their psychological makeup overall leads to a lesser probability of ENFPs being good at typology and getting to the heart of people’s inner psyche and sufferings. If it sounded mean, I’m sorry. I really meant to say everything without any attached emotion, except the bit when I talked about the tendency to be histrionic. I don’t take that back; it’s something many people around my vicinity noticed about this particular ENFP I know, and if that’s so, it’s clearly something to fix. Her behavior was unacceptable, as she scolds everyone to be more considerate when it is she herself who is most inconsiderate in the loudest most manic possible way. Quite a few ENFPs do this, but of course not all. Fe in the id position run amok = histrionics/bipolar/manic-depressiveness. On a spectrum though, of course. The person I described to you, is the WORST case I’ve seen, bypassing the aux, whereas others are much milder and sometimes even amusing or somewhat endearing. This is not me being judgmental, it stems from the logic of Blakes conception of MBTI. I can show you examples of every other worst case scenario for each MBTI type, including INFJ, if you’d like.
What I said about my ENFP friend and disputes with her, was not even a judgment on her. I have admitted to my horrible tendencies to be selfish and manipulative, and to expect too much in general…INFJs can be horrible too, no, in fact really horrible at times when involved in very close relationships. And that’s exactly why I had problems with her. The dynamic between our functions doesn’twork in the end when we try to get too close to each other.
When I said ENFPs tend to not be very empathic or are shallow in giving empathy…I don’t mean that in a negative way either. I mean shallow in the sense that empathy doesn’t run really really deep. Truly understanding and envisioning mucky, deep, and complex psychological fuck-ups is hard for ENFPs in general (and this isn’t supposed to be a “bad thing,” and has nothing to do with how nice you are; it’s an ability best reserved for psychologists and spiritualists and the like) But same with ISTJs or ENTPs or many many other types. But ENFP was the subject in question. And when ENFPs use Fi, they can show a lot of kindness or sincerity. ENFPs are definitely nicer than most MBTI types, but I stand by the stance that their gestures of empathy are just more detached in nature than an INFP or INFJ. If we are to go theoretically by Blakes MBTI system, of course. And to be honest, it really fits with most ENFPs I know. It’s not supposed to be a mean judgment, Carolina.
I’m sorry if my apology sounds very terse or defensive. I am now on my phone and it’s extremely late here.
I don’t know if I already said if, but I’ll say it again. I like ENFPs, but I have problems with them at times if I get too close to them (which is to blame on both sides), and sometimes Ne-Fe id-Te on turbo/extreme mode can be unpleasant to some people. That’s it. Other than that, many ENFPs I know make me laugh and smile, and I had at least two ENFP mentors that had the most impact and influence on me. the only points I really wanted to make are that I don’t think Blake if ENFP nor do I think ENFPs are like INFJs. I also don’t think they are great at MBTI typing or solving/understanding hard psychological problems - going by their MBTI makeup, but there are of course exceptions. None of this was intended to be mean, I’m sorry if it came across that way.
Just in case I contributed to that feeling…
My twin is enfp and he has a big heart for the whole world if I had to sum it up. I don’t know too many who can be described like that. Besides that he is brilliant. Even Louis CK would call him brilliant because it wouldn’t be exaggerated. He understands people very instinctively and rapidly too. I know a bunch of enfps and some are just the absolute coolest people. I mean they just go enjoy this world or go big even if at home. Go make connections and adventures just nonstop and with a brilliance often. My brother is very embracing of others. He embraces others to the point of self exhaustion at times. He has to do Si minimums to calm himself even without being enfj. It’s really people loving in a generous sense.
There are bad and good sides to every type.
@johnonymous I am sure you were just joking around but it probably came off to me wrong in the wall of mild but steady hate around it. Thank you for your message. I will respect your strict boundaries about mail, totally understand.
@schlopadoo your explanation is fine it doesn’t sound defensive, and yeah your comment was probably the most specifically harsh one, but maybe I would have taken it differently if in a different context. It might have been more in the “truth hurts” category if I was in a better mood to receive it. Like a comment above yours was literally “ENFP… Ewwww”. I appreciate your response. I’m not sure why I commented, maybe I shouldn’t have. Who am I to stop the group sanctioned activity of enfp bashing? Hate and love are two sides of the same coin after all. That’s what I’ll tell myself and learn to have a thicker skin.
@lunar your comments did not come off wrong at all in any way, that’s really nice of you to check and offer me nice anecdotes to counteract my feeling of crappiness. That’s pretty cool you have a twin brother, that must be such a special relationship and bond to have. Thank you for the response.
I hate this thread. I should have known to stay away from the taboo subject, no good comes of these things.
I hadn’t thought so, but I hope I did not in part distress you. This is a song I heard so many times in my childhood and has always made me feel good. I hope you feel better.
@Carolina, can you please let me know if any words or gestures of mine were rude to you? I really do want to understand and learn.
@TinyYellowTree wow I have heard and sang that song so many times throughout my youth too, and yet for the life of me I can’t remember exactly where or when. It’s like it’s in my bones. So strange! Thank you very much for that.
@Ankh yeah I didn’t call people out by name because it felt too confrontational, but it seems like leaving it vague actually ended up being way more so. You did not say anything offensive, although your joke sparked it off since the subtext of course is “holy crap no way Blake is ENFP”. Please note that I made practically the exact same joke to Prax in my response higher up so I am not offended by that joke or general ribbing of the types.
After I posted I sort of just wanted to drop it, but I opened this can of worms so here it is, the comments I found rude with my responses:
Maybe joking, a winky face probably would have done wonders here…
This sounds reasonable and intellectual and I’m sure all the INFJs were nodding along. But hold on! record scratch!
ENFPs don’t have real empathy? Are you kidding me? Empathy, a core quality of humanity and most higher primates. This is a hop skip and a jump away from dehumanization.
And I can feel shclopadoo over there rolling his perfect empathetic eyes and thinking there she goes, being histrionic, but does my point stand? I think it does. And that’s where this is going.
Blake says people using the word “meh” are personally killing the use of language and deserve contempt. Is he being histrionic? Well that depends you see!! If he is in fact an ENFP I guess he is being histrionic! But if he is an INFJ he is just being cheeky with his Fe. See where this is going? See what I meant about mbti harboring judgemental impulses and biases?
It is so easy to fall into in-group/out-group thinking where the out-group is always the one that is wrong and has the problem, and then it gets bad when you apply this lense to individuals. Schlopadoo didn’t even acknowledge that the strains in his friendships were two way streets until his answer to me. Schlopadoo you present it like it was all the insufferable ENFPs fault, even going so far as to say they forced you to do the door slam. Seriously? ENFPs are also responsible for your bad behavior and faults now?
There’s a difference between saying, for example, “S types will primarily use sensory information to make sense of the world” and saying “S types are not able to engage in deep thinking” and then taking it to the next dangerous step of “therefore I am right and they are wrong”.
Sometimes it is a fine line and it felt like that line was crossed here in this thread. There’s a difference between saying “ENFPs and INFJs will express empathy and feeling differently based on the contrast of having Fi or Fe in the aux position”, but because this is an INFJ hive whatever INFJ flavor empathy is becomes just “empathy” and whatever ENFP flavor empathy is becomes “doesn’t exist”. Likewise for subtlety, feelings, culture, etc and all the other things ENFPs are apparently incapable of according to the above comments which went un-challenged and even applauded.
Given my explanation above this is self explanatory.
This is probably the one that most rubbed me the wrong way, johnonymous acknowledges and applauds the rampant shit talking then says it is ok because name-calling.
I thought Erika was just trolling (and yes I figured she was just trolling from the word go), but her little experiment was actually pretty telling about these mbti induced biases. She said “Blake is an ENFP”. Ok, now how do you feel about ENFPs? Now how do you feel about Blake? Again, if you use mbti to “other” people you are doing it wrong. What are we doing here? Are we here to examine and dismantle our own egos or to stroke them?
Me likely what you have to say!
Sigh, I hate the word trolling, but supposin I deserve that title for this move. Really, honestly, if you actually knew me, I did not intend to hurt anyone or start a “hate fest”. All I wanted to do was prove something that seems utterly silly to me now - considering this is a MBTI forum!!! Lol
I’ve been there, Carolina. When people harp on your type. But it’s a type. And there’s actually a thread created by Prax I believe that is free range to harp on all of the types. Rum doggie dog said it - good qualities and bad to all types. Doesn’t even mean we have those bad qualities, just that we may have a pre-disposition to them because of our makeup. Me, on the other hand, I have ALL the bad qualities…lol.
I think my comprehension is off. It’s really interesting actually to see how everyone perceives. I actually looked at johnnynonnymouse’s message as the most light-hearted AND the only one (besides yours) that actually pointed out what was happening. I think that’s his humor. And I think I’m slowly getting it, yay!! Like this is how I remember john’s humor: he once said: this is a picture of not my wife. Well duh, it’s his wife. And how he once described “his friend” fucking his wife into the wall. John has a weird approach, but I find it light-hearted.
Everyone else is probably just trying to associate. And I think it took the direction it did is because Blake is known for being a little apprehensive towards ENFPs. So yeah, that’s why I chose this type. He “hates” hipsters and yet I call him one all the time. It’s one of my great joys in life. Is to call Blake a hipster. Do you want to know why I like it? Because he gets so frustrated. It’s the most silly thing in the world. And that’s how I was seeing this thread…silly. But that’s an ENFJ talking. AND the psychology of it all. So tasty. I could have said anything really and the same probably would have happened. But unfortunately (fortunately?) there are some of you who think I have upstanding qualities.
And John is also right about me hating on Ti. Ti can suck my ass. Wait are we talking about the rapper? Same applies.
I don’t even know what I’ve typed so far, but you’re right, this exercise opened us up to new levels. Good stuff overall. And I really love your voicing.
I’m sad a futile discussion had this fallout. I’m sorry I led into it. I understand that you would feel this way, because we were being harsh about enfps and I think pointlessly, like an onslaught is probably how it felt for you. It’s not always deep to contrast types like this. It can be downright trashy.
It dances my heart. My mother used to sing De Colores to us when I was little, probably she sang this too. I am not much of a singer, except to sing along in the car, but these feel like they hold goodness and light in them. I haven’t researched at all, so I can’t know if I agree, but Joan Baez is listed as an ENFP.
My experiences with ENFP have been positive far more than negative. But when the experience was hard on me, it like printed itself deep in my experience, and had a profound effect. The positive has been felt as BEING SEEN. And by that I don’t mean they have all the answers. I mean they know when something is wrong. Even if it is brief and fluttery, those I believe to be ENFP [I could be wrong of course, we all could] have seen and recognized feeling/pain from across the room. They know. When I feel like a truck ran over me, these are people that come greet me with a pat on the shoulder or hug. I am not a huggy person, not touchy, but I do appreciate acknowledgment, which is often light and hopeful and non demanding. I have not had a close friend ENFP though. I think my aunt may be ENFP. But she is an entirely different person than my mom, so perhaps my mom is yet an ENFJ. Which brings us to I am no more sure of Blake’s type than I was a week ago. More review. Yay!
This is true of my enfp brother. If someone is down, it’s like it’s something “heavy” in the corner. It weighs down as this variable that’s there and he wants to “cheer up” the person. He can get down right anxious about someone being down in his presence, and people that are down tend to drag him downward because he feels it. I think it’s gloomy to him. And then he becomes a bit “gloomed in the corner”. Countless times my brother has had these absolutely sincere little gestures when he thinks someone is upset. Cute things. I mean…just the most cute things ever. Because he’s there and can’t help feeling something is off. And he’s concerned. And wants to see you smile “again”.
Edit: hi @supernokturnal your presence continues to be felt
This is the experience with several I have come to think are ENFP. I don’t know for sure, as I rarely ask anyone and am having to use what I have seen of those who claim ENFP, which is tricky as it gets since of course all are different.
I am curious about these cute things…?
a lot of gifts. random cooking of meals (which is a huge feat for him). buying airplane tickets to come visit. flowers. surprises. music mixes. doing stuff together/going out. throwing improbable reunions together. these things he’ll be moved to do them even when he has barely any money left. he’s spending his last money. and he’ll never resent having spent anything on anyone. i specifically remember this one time he thought i was upset with him and he came with this candle and perfume. we were out and about. don’t even know when he got it. the gesture was so cute and overly concerned. sometimes he should probably worry less and spend less money. but the impulse is sweet. so tangible sentimental gestures he’s in to. even if the rest of the time he’s not like that. oh my god, image of Blake with his dogs popped in…only because my bro has this huge dog that he’s always telling to shut the fuck up and he plays with that dog like crazy, that dog is his baby, but the size of a small cow:) he also splurges on his dog. that dog gets the good treatment interspersed with occasional abuse from all his chaotic travels and mood swings.
I think Enfp are very sensitive in part because of a very self critical component that gets very little direct expression so it never gets validated. I regularly text my enfp sister who is successful and by all appearances doing great and tell her “come visit me before you kill your self” and she always appreciates it because no one else knows or believes how much she sometimes hates herself.
Ne is such an amoral and insatiable beast that I can’t imagine having Fi as my aux. I would guess its very hard to believe you aren’t experiencing the maximal available life experience–hard to believe you might be missing something.
ENFPs probably need at least one or two friends who they know value them at their worst.
Said like a true ENFP!
Hahah yeah all of this was so illustrative at the time!!
Did this title just change? What was it before?
Maybe it was the same? I dunno. Lots of changes within the past 24 hours.