I don’t have much time to write atm, so I’ll just say a couple things and maybe come back later. In cases like this, it is really nice to be an INFJ. I’ve been divorced twice. In both cases, I just “knew” when it was time to go and how to do it. The first was a really bad marriage that I stayed in for eight years—I was helping him shave his chest for another woman he was with by the time I finally knew it was right to leave. I never had a plan, I knew the marriages were over, but I don’t think strategically at all. I just wait until I “know” that it’s time to go.
On the other hand, I am watching my ENTP boyfriend go through a divorce. The process started three years ago and he just now filed the papers. He wanted to control it, strategize, manage, reduce damages, etc. He never would have been able to do it without me. It really didn’t turn out any better for anyone doing it that way.
The most important thing I can say is try to be fair, don’t rip him off. You still have youth and beauty, make sure you leave him with enough money to be a good prospect to some other woman. Use Fe and go with the flow.
Also, If he has strong Si, then start creating memories of you guys being separate and doing things separately. Help him transition into routines that are based around him being alone.
Lol—I’m pretty sure she is ISFJ. ENTPs can’t get away from them without help no matter how much they hate them. It’s like that post Stewart linked about RPG versions of MBTI types. ISFJs put ENTPs in obligation leg shackles that they can’t break out of—they try but only end up fucking everything and everyone up.
Ugh, yeah, I’m pretty sure my ENTP’s mother was an ISFJ and the “obligation shackles” were firmly in place, even when he lived in the UK for 14 years while she was still in NZ. He even bought a house and paid the mortgage all that time so she had somewhere to live, as she was penniless after she divorced his Dad.
I know she was grateful, but it didn’t stop her bitching and complaining about it every time she was feeling sorry for herself. Try doing that to any ENTP anywhere and see where it gets you! Think of fireworks: light the blue touch-paper and stand well clear…
I totally read this thread title wrong at first and thought it said “Angel or Executioner Depending on Type?”
Yeah, I might really be projecting something here.
@Ankh I wish you the best. I have not been married, but I do wish I left my longterm relationship sooner than I actually did, because then along with feeling guilty for leaving, I also felt guilty for being deceptive about my feelings and placing false hope. Us Fe types need to make more effort to stay true to ourselves, I think.
Yeah, I get this.
This one made me come back to this thread and comment. I’ve really been thinking about your words. I don’t plan on ripping anyone off. I wish him the very best. But the “make sure you leave him…” sits unwell with me for some reason. Like, I get it. And I plan on being civil. This is not an abusive relationship… But, there’s a side of me that totally rejects the idea of “make sure” anything. Did he “make sure” with me? No. Once we get married, is there a guarantee everything is gonna be fine and we’ll both continually “make sure”? No. That is what I’ve really learned out of this whole marriage thing. Is that, nothing is a guarantee. And it seems like such a simple and easy-to-understand concept, but I finally get it now. There’s such a holy connotation with marriage, it makes me sick. There’s a side of me that wants to respond to your comment with - Fuck that, I’ll make sure I’m fine. He can find his own damn way. It’s not like I’m going to try to make things harder than they already will be. But, I need to focus on me, not him. It’s the whole reason for the divorce anyway - me. I can’t be responsible for people’s success or failure in life.
I do appreciate your feedback because it helps form my picture. I really did think on your words all this time. This is my honest response.
@Ankh Funny–your response made me laugh. I forget sometimes you are ENFJ–my comments were well-suited to another INFJ and just plain totally wrong for an ENFJ. Maybe play fair or don’t totally kill him are better ones?
People are wired to want and crave security or a guarantee. It’s the reason why the essence of religion (of any type) is so brilliant. It satisfies that part of the mind without depending on another human being (ignoring all the distortions around today). Meditation, buddhism, christianity, santoria, paganism,…there are lots of forms. But I think relationships with people only work if you find that security/guarantee in something that isn’t human. And then you can take the best of people and leave the worst without too much damage to yourself.
A typical path for NF types, me included, is to start exploring D/s to have a relationship with more intensity and that provides a sort of deeper meaning. I’m not against D/s and really like the psychological concept of it. But just know that it will fail you too in the same way.
I absolutely love this.
I’ve shared so much with this forum over the years.
It will be no different going forward.
I’ve been fucked up for a long while and am still gonna be be for a little longer … but
I am getting a divorce. The decision became final last night.
There are two reasons I share this.
One - the biggest reason is I probably need some support. Even if I don’t, it can’t hurt. I may need a place to talk too …
Second - I want this to be an opportunity to help others if they so seek.
Does it feel good now you’ve made the decision? Someone I know has been struggling through the same thing for a while now but since making the decision to divorce she has felt so much more energised. The weight being lifted, being tethered gone. It all got finalised quite quickly (within weeks) and she’s like a new person.
I’ll have more time tomorrow to dedicate to further detail, but yes. I feel better. Last night was terrible. We both cried. Very hard. We drank a “toast to … whatever” in his words. Lol I had a martini, him a whiskey. It was the most painful thing to see someone in that much pain and it was all by my doing. I mean, awful pain. I’ll never forget the pain of last night. We just passed our 10 year anniversary. It’s a long fucking time. But this time, no matter how much he cried and pleaded for a chance, I couldn’t. I kept picturing the future and it wasn’t good. And he asked, “How can I make you happy? How can we change things? Do we need to move? What can I do?” And all I could think of saying was, “You have to let me go.”
Today, I am surprised to say has been very well. We are on the same page. He knows there’s no changing my mind and has accepted it. He accepted it last night, but feels better today. He feels better because we talked about the finer details of how things will play out. Now all I hear from him today is - “I’m proud of you.” “Thank you for being honest.” and “I’m just glad you don’t hate me.” There have even been jokes today. He feels better and that makes me feel better.
I’ll fill you guys in with more details tomorrow. But I feel pretty optimistic. This is a decision I feel good about. I feel it’s mine too. Which is something I haven’t felt for a while.
I don’t really know what to say without sounding a bit yucky and trite but I do thank you for being open and sharing. I admire those who can stand in their own power in moments of pressure and challenge and who can continue to see beyond painful moments to follow through on their truth. It gives me courage to do the same.
Hmm bit gobbledygook but I think you’ll catch my drift.
Totally, sacha. I got you.
Hi Ankh, I’ve just posted my latest Astro forecast from my wise astrologer friend in the UK. As I was reading through i, I immediately thought of you, as Amy discusses the potential effects of the current transits of Venus on our relationships:
“Venus is now moving forwards again, after being retrograde for 40 days. This means that she will be going back over the same ground she has already covered twice in the last couple of months. This includes Venus squaring the Nodes of the Moon while opposing Uranus. The first time this configuration occurred was around 13 September, the second pass was around 30 October and the third and final pass is building now and will be exact on 1 December. This brings the potential for some shocks and surprises in the realm of our relationships that could shake us out of our proverbial ruts. It is quite possible that we could have some epiphanies and potentially “wake up” to some rather profound and unsettling realisations about ourselves and our relationships. Some relationships may break apart if they are on shaky ground to begin with, while others could receive a much needed breath of fresh air. We have here the possibility of releasing ourselves from some ancient conditioning and ingrained patterns that have been running the show and not serving us in the slightest!”
The full post is here:
Thank you, Stewart. Yeah, this paragraph and the following in your post are very apt for me.
Good morning and Happy Thanksgiving!
I have more time today to share more, so I’m gonna.
My husband and I have had talks about my lack of happiness before over the years. It was so hard for me to communicate it. I felt like I had to have an organized list of reasons. Like, citing sources while writing a paper. Sometimes the only reason I could think of was, “I’m just not feelin’ it, man.”
Maybe it was my birthday this year, but I had this strong feeling like things had to change. Something has to change. I’m not getting any younger. So I had this strong sense that I need to go left or right. This is the fork. You know when you get signals from the universe? I was getting a shit-ton that it was alright to do this, to leave. I was getting the signal that everything would be alright. Not to mention there was a particular construction sign I saw (not currently being used, off to the side of the road) which read, “Tough Road Ahead”. So I was getting a sense from the universe that it would be hard, but that I could do it and everything would be fine.
It was the 11th. I sat him down and said, “I want a divorce.” The shock that overcame his face … he wanted to know why. He didn’t cry yet, but I did. I thought I wouldn’t. This mood carried throughout the day. But more came out. I finally expressed all the built up anger I had for him over the years. Just stupid shit really. Well, some people might think they’re big. He started to feel intensely guilty. I apologized for keeping things to myself for so long. The evening set in and he started to cry. I have only seen this man cry once and it was over a cat. He started to cry about losing me. He begged. He said the sweetest things. Things I’ve never heard. This emotion which I never heard. It was a beautiful moment. One of the reasons for divorce I gave him was - “I’m not sure I don’t want kids.” I honestly don’t know. But I knew I couldn’t have it with him. He is much older and closer to retirement than I and we’ve discussed kids in the past. He does not want them. In this beautiful moment we shared, he said he wanted kids. And I pleaded with him, “I don’t believe you, I can’t believe you.” But finally I caved to this moment. It was this moment. I said okay. And we hugged and kissed and cried. Have you guys seen Suicide Squad? I know, it’s a shitty movie, but remember when that witch lady made Harley see her dreams? Her and Joker normal with a family? That’s what I saw. I saw a nice family. I saw love and warmth.
Things kinda went back to normal then. I felt good and recommitted to him. But then, I started to think about the signs I received from the universe. The tough road sign. I thought, was that it? That’s all you were talking about? That wasn’t too bad at all. So I started to think. Wait a minute. This isn’t right. That was wrong. I have to listen to what I feel. I have to say something. I cannot go down this road like this. I cannot bring children into the world like this. It’s a lie. This is all still a lie.
So a couple days ago, I reopened the case. And finally it’s settled. We are getting a divorce. This time, the crying was worse. Much worse. On both sides. I begged for forgiveness. I mean, fucking begged. I told him I am the worst person in the world. That I’ve been trying to wear a smile for him, for our families. … for normalcy. He held me and said it was all okay. That night was rough. And it opened the door for a raging cold which I have now.
Yesterday was awesome. So unbelievably so. We talked about details. He was stressing so much about what we do next. So we talked it out. This is where I shine! “we do blah, then blah, then blah.”
We are going to get through the holidays. Family and things … my mom just buried a best friend … his parents are really old and have health problems … so we’re getting through the holidays and then come the 1st of the year we’ll seek out our attorney. I kinda didn’t want it to be the guy he was thinking of using because he took care of my husband’s first divorce AND my parents’. Ugh, magical. But he feels most comfortable with him.
Now that we have a game plan, he totally relaxed. He even said, “I’m happy” yesterday! Waa! He showed me how to patch walls and paint too. Lol. I am so lucky to have married such a wonderful guy. But it’s now time. I’m really scared. But I know I can do it.
The beauty of sincerity. None of marriage counselor’s business.
This last post is so much better than the first one in this topic.