Is Christine and The Queens an ENFJ?


#21

Blake speaks of two different INTP’s in one of his articles [that I am too lazy to chase down].
There was a female, of the goofy sort, TerryPaws, but unfortunately when I went to give her as an example, I found her videos gone. Crap.

My daughter is INTP and her close friend is I am fairly sure ISFP. They are very compatible much of the time and quite alike in many respects, they enjoy the same things, namely video games and art, though the isfp is more physically present/intense and my daughter is more logically present/intense. LOL, present… only when she wants to be and usually only intense when arguing or ranting. They have been friends for eight years. I know I am not supposed to talk about people we can’t see together… but my example disappeared…

I did like the HP comparison, @Ignas.

My favorite song of hers so far is Tilted.


#22

Yes, he did say that in this article. He distinguished two types of INTPs: E5 and E6. But then he wrote this comment a year and a half later:


#23

A quick ‘yey’ to Ignas for delighting us with his presence once more and outlining so beautifully his case for ISFP.

@Nur I could not have presented Ignas’s thought process and reasoning but the ISFP accounts for my ?? over ENFJ - the “softness” I think I said which moved me to suggest INFJ but without elaborating further.

That link to Blake’s list has been so useful I keep it open on my phone so I can do some looking into the types when I get spare moments. I’ve been focusing on NFs & working my way through. It’s really helping get that sense of archetype continuum for whole typing which feels like a much more natural approach for me anyway then picking function bits apart and trying to make it fit into a whole.


#24

Hello, @Ignas! I wholeheartedly agree that one must look at any given type as a whole. I am not necessarily trying to break it down into the functions. I couldn’t do it even if I wanted to! I am actually searching for the whole impression I get from a type and then, after a while, some of the functions start showing up. I do prefer interviews though because to me they are a more authentic expression of a person, naked, more exposed. And you can also see their interaction with other types which in itself is very revealing!

You might not agree with me on this one, but I’m not sure typing a singer through their videos and music only is the most accurate method available (because of the entire production team behind them, marketing strategies and other influences). Maybe I’m wrong and their true nature shows up in what they do, one way or another. I’m definitely sure it can, but I’m completely incapable of typing anyone that way. I also believe that focusing too much on the archetypes can put us at risk of missing out on the continuum of a type, as you say.

Yes, I can see ISFP for both Beyoncé and Michael Jackson. Madonna, more like ESxP, but whatever.
Funny you should mention Daniel Radcliffe, because I see him as INTP too, hehe! :grin: So there is some consistency here and we are actually seeing something, it’s just different labels.

@TinyYellowTree Yes, I have seen INTP and ISFP being good friends, I don’t know how it works, but it does! And thank you for mentioning that article about enneagram 5 vs enneagram 6 INTP and for digging it up, @Ignas! Yes, INTP 6 is exactly what I’m seeing! Tobey Maguire as an example, yes! Jim Parsons as well?

Another beautiful INTP mind of this kind, Vincent Kartheiser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkA3WAM1cKc
And I believe this young lady to be an INTP artist in the making: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_2GjbvrX7w
Don’t tell me these two are INFPs, ‘cause I’m not buying it.

Eddie Redmayne looks the most like Christine and the Queens actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimQ1A01N9c&index=20&list=RDQMnatysXf_HjY
Now I’ve been hesitant about him being xNFP, because he just looks so ‘lovely’, but I’ll stick with INTP. That smile looks Fe to me.

@sacha I get you with the ‘softness’, but wouldn’t that rather be a lack of Se actually? It’s hard to speak of unspeakable things, I wish we could borrow each other’s glasses!


#25

Until we find out where @Blake stands regarding this now, a couple of years after this statement, I have nothing to say at the moment. You see @Nur, I came into this place not so long ago and I came here more or less as tabula rasa, without prior knowledge in typing. All I’ve learned, I’ve learned from Stellar Maze. All I write, I write in the context of what I’ve read here.

Also, this discussion should probably be split into some new topic.


#26

I have yet to look at your other links about INTP’s, but did just go watch a few interviews with Eddie Redmayne. I love his work I’ve seen so far, need to watch a few more movies soon. But to me he is quintessential ENFP. If not, I have a shitload of rearranging to do…
However, he is warmer than an INTP. High energy. He has those sparkling warm ENFP eyes. Moving body. And ENFP’s have great grins. Wonder if that has to do with the Id… the child coming out?
Yeah, nice, they get the winning smile and INFJ gets the Fi tantrum…

Okay, watched both now. The guy, Vincent, struck me as INTP. The young woman, I’m not sure yet. I’d have to see more of her. Seeing an INTP at their most emotional I think is tricky.


#27

Christine is Liba rising. Compare:


#28

Yes.

Right, good.

Exactly, good application of what you were just talking about. People are led astray in this manner in typing all the time.

Thus, whole types, the archetype.

Now, I think it seems obvious that the first impression that Christine (or Heloise) is making is some kind of T impression.

But, as Ignas alluded to with the introduction of subtypes, it could be that this impression is simply Christine’s most forward or leading impression, similar to the rising sign in astrology.

So, to clear things up in this regard, since I have not talked about subtypes that explicitly, it is clear that for every type one can easily further qualify the type by saying it’s one of the eight cognitive functions version of that type, thus there would be 8 different variations on the type in question. There are 16 types. If you wanna a get a bit more savvy, you could say that each of the 16 types has another of the 16 types as a subtype variation or emphasis, hence we can speak of INTj-ish ENFJs, ENTJ-ish INFJs and so on. Or we can simply say an Fi-ish INFJ or a Ti-ish INFJ ie use one of the eight cognitive functions to qualify what type of INFJ (in this example) we’re talking about.

Yes, as a whole. That’s what I mean when I say a person is x type - I mean the main type. The core type. The essential type.

And this is where people get all fucked up. They are seeing subtypes or cognitive functions that are to the fore in a person’s personality, but which however may not be the cognitive functions that are strong (or valued) in the person’s main type.

The most obvious cognitive functions or visible archetype of one of the 16 types seen upon a cursory inspection (first impression) of a person are often analogous to what the rising sign represents in an astrological chart - first impression, a leading impression, a mask, what a person looks like.

It’s relatively superficial compared to the main type, the latter of which I would say is analogous to the position of the Sun in the astrological chart.

So, when I say a person is an ISFJ-ish INFJ (for example), it is similar to saying they are an INFJ Sun with ISFJ rising. Jordan Peterson, for example, I would label as this sort of INFJ.

And because it is this rising portion of a person’s personality that is most confusing when assigning a main type, I think it is useful to qualify their main type with some sort of xxxx-ish designation, especially when it might account for why they don’t appear to be whatever I think their main type might be.

And as Ignas said, does Christine really fit into the INTP mold as a main type? Admittedly, there is not much of a continuum established for INTP, with just one female example, but from what we know of Christine and of the archetype of INTP, it don’t seem likely that is her main type for reasons that Ignas and Spice have stated.

Agree, she doesn’t seem like she fits on the continuum of the people associated with those two types.

Exactly, that’s an ISFP continuum. More or less.

Yes, that’s true, I did say that, however since I have since then switched the association so that the Sun is now similar to the dominant function (and the main type) and the rising sign is similar to the auxiliary function and the rising MB type (foretype, leading type, most visible type etc), having a Gemini Sun would be more similar to being the dominant function of INTP (or ENTJ depending on whether it the former or latter half of Gemini that the Sun tenants).

Yes, I’d say that what I get from Christine is that she is essentially an ISFP type with some sort of NT rising first impression and I think INTP archetype is what I’m seeing (Ti and Ne) and so, that’s an example of a very different first impression versus what she truly is. Cases like that are particularly confusing. I think she is one of those cases.

She presents as a very atypical ISFP.

Also, the women that came to mind when watching her were Sandra Bernhard (similar physiognomy), Juliette Binoche (both French), and Juliette Lewis (whom I consider an ISFP).


Wiki: Typings By Blake
#29

@Ignas I looked at her chart. Ok, you’ve convinced me. Her chart explains the confounding factors I was seeing. She has a bunch of planets in Gemini, including the sun, which gave her the Ti impression. I assume Cancer midheaven is the Fe impression. And Sagittarius moon is the Ne impression. Libra rising I assume would hide a lot of Fi as well.

I did think she had a lot of Se for INTP, but I remember Blake saying that INxP can actually develop minimal Se presence if they wanted to, so I thought maybe she was an extreme example for whatever reason. But based on her chart, it’s far more likely she’s an INTP-ish ISFP than the other way around. I don’t see anything to suggest an Se-boost.

@Blake thanks for the additional clarification.


#30

It would probably also help if I knew more ISFPs who were using their Se more fully in real life. So many of them seem to be caught in the Fi-Ni loop…


#31

I stand corrected and admit that dismissing astrology (which I’m obviously a total ignorant of) is not helping. I really wish I could see what you all see! Lost in the maze again, but fascinated with your insights!

The frustration of not seeing it has really triggered a desire to learn about astrology more, but there’s a huge amount of work ahead and MBTI has already been too much of a source of procrastination… But hey, I did renew my subscription here the same day I decided to take a break from MB! :grin:


#32

3 posts were split to a new topic: Harry Potter’s (Daniel Radcliffe’s) type