MBTI self-improvement (super ego function, the 7th function)


#1

so, according to Blake’s theory, ESTP look up to ISFP
and 7th function is something we all need to work on.

and it makes sense how that is for everyone.
because I consider Fi as moral, and caring for people’s emotional needs. having empathy.

it seems like my ISFP wife was born with morals installed in her. it’s like she knows what’s right and wrong instinctively without understanding why(using Ti)

so according to that theory,
INFJ looks up to ENTJ
INTJ looks up to ENFJ
INFP looks up to ESFP
ENTP looks up to INFP
ENFJ looks up to ISFJ(Si)
ENFP looks up to INTP(Ti)
right? if you put 7th function in dominant position and put your dominate function in their auxiliary.

so, how do you look up to them?

how do you work on your super ego?

Fi. for me, I try to be caring and patient by listening to people and understand where they’re coming from.
I can’t completely put myself in their emotional shoes but I try my best as much as I can.
I try to push aside the urge where I wanna torture every living things. by not putting them to near death experience.

try to care more about family and look after them if they need anything.

try to be giving and generous to people in need, like homeless people. buying them food. give them clothes or blanket. not giving them money.

trying not to be so vulgar. this is very difficult.

trying to feel other’s pain. this is also very hard.

doing super ego minimum seems to turn one into a healthy person. ignoring 7th function is sign of unhealthy.

i think if I wasn’t working on my Fi, I’d be the definition of immorality. and I don’t want that. that’s not cool.

mbti is so fun and it satisfies my Ti

Ti for ExFP is like doing more research, building knowledge.
healthiest ExFP are very knowledgeable, like yourself @Carolina!

and Si is like social structural and boundaries. aka, being the norm. blending.
ENXJ who are healthy are not too out of line.
although Si seems like a memory function, that’s just how I see it.
or maybe ENXJ really do need to memorize things hahah
i think @iamrl has some balance in her life because of her ISTJ dad. I think he’s one of the biggest contributor for her to go this far in education and being a “good” girl. which is cool because she’s not a goody good. but. good.
damn. I said good too much that word is weird.


#3

argh lunar


#4

I do look up to Se dom.

Hmm, I don’t know if I am Se-ing right, please let me know if I am on the wrong track.

I like walking, my work place is near the sea, so most of the time when I finished work, I like to go and have a walk near the sea side. Enjoying the sunshine, enjoying the clouds, observing whether is it high tide/low tide today, see if I can spot any jellyfish. Just the simple stuff, they make me happy and I am always amaze by nature whenever I go there.

I used to exercise a lot. They make me feel fitter and healthier. But now work took over my life unfortunately.

If Te is organising, planning for a precise attack, at work, my focus is mainly on my patients and did I do my job solving their problems (is that Se?). Though I do tend to go off the track most of the time > <

That’s all I can think of about my Se. Do you have any recommendation how I should Se more?


#5

for now, I’ll say

exercise daily. fifteen minutes a day.
but not more than 45 minutes.

take care of your hygiene. wash your hands often and spray some cologne. hahah

eat healthy. no processed junk. cut sugar down.

walking is great

i think solving problem is… Ti. BUT
i think all functions can solve problems depends on what it is.

but Se as a whole is being in the moment.
not worrying. not over thinking. taking one day at a time.
when you feel pressured. don’t think about the next day.
just tell yourself “today is enough, I’ll worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes”


#6

I will try!

Nooooooo, I love my cakes and chocolates :sob:
I will try to cut it down :cry:

I think the last one is the hardest, just to be in the moment and not worry about the future. Hmm, I should start by meditating.

Thanks for the advise, super!! I will try to do them!


#7

I would be interested in hearing Blake chime in on this. I thought his idea was that your 7th (superego) function should be the other person’s 6th (Id) function for best growth (although maybe not necessarily romanticism) in relationships.

My experience (INFJ here) is that I admire and really like ENTJs, but they don’t really inspire me to get things done or to use my Te more. I just admire their use of it. Whereas with an ENTP, they negatively inspire me to use my Te. Since Te is their Id function, they “hound” me to get stuff done because they cannot relax until they feel that aspect is taken care of. Now this is incredibly limited experience so it may be unique to me rather than universal, but I would be interested in seeing what other people say. Also, I have a close INFP friend (as well as an INFP mother)–neither one have done well so far with ENTPs–they are too far apart on the spectrum of Fi to be able to really like each other or benefit from each other.

I don’t get the impression that ISFJs work in this way for you though…and ESTPs have yet to inspire or force me to develop Te more so that can’t be the whole theory or there would be two types for everyone.


#8

As an enfj I’ll say in terms of the original post, I either hate or love isfjs and there’s no in between…and isfps are cool and all but we don’t really interact often for some reason…

On the other hand with I’ve learned (with the help of this forum loool) how to identify istps out since they tick off all my boxes :wink: their brains and physical presence combined and vulnerability in the emotional arena give me the tingles :kissing_heart:

Re the development of the superego I think being in a lab and having to remember all these technical details of experiments is enough to satisfy the Si minimum haaha…


#9

I hadn’t thought of it that way, but this is very accurate for me since my partner is an ENTP. Even though it bugs the hell out of me, the relentless nagging does make me get stuff done, if only to shut him up for a while! There is also a powerful immediacy to his drive to complete tasks that he sees as important; it has to be done NOW! To be fair, he drives himself just as hard and can spend hours grappling with complex Sensing-type activities, such as making travel bookings or doing the finances. What you hear from him when he’s in Te mode are dire prophecies of death and disaster if the task in question isn’t completed speedily and accurately. I have to try very hard not to point out the fact that the world won’t end if you don’t pay a bill six weeks before it’s due, or say something like “it’ll keep to tomorrow”, as this will just increase his anxiety and stress.


#10

Isn’t the driving towards the Te superego kinda unhealthy for INFJs? As Blake recommends, a dash of Te minimum to lend structure to the whole thing followed by a liberal dose of Fe-style meandering towards the goal should work best for INFJs.

In theory.


#11

Try to distract him into somehow using his Ti to get him off your back? Trick him into expounding on his views on philosophy or something. It’s both beneficial to you and healthy to him. “All warfare is based on deception.”


#12

YES.

@Lunar somehow magnetically attracts my attention and I seek her approval. Weird huh?

This is one of the biggest reasons that I believe in Socionics; their depiction of the Supervisorial relationships, which is the way they characterize the ENTP Looking up to the INFP, or any of the relationships in which your dominant function is outclassed by your “Supervisors” because she (lunar) has it as an Auxiliary, with a softer and more artful touch, while further, that Supervisor has a tertiary that is better than your inferior, (Si in this case) and that Supervisor overvalues Si, probably thinks the world totally demands Si, and thus is liable to look at the supervisee over time (me) and be like “That is cute but really you do have to grow up at some point; this business of Ne, it’s important, but it’s nowhere near as important as Si, and if you get another vehicle repossessed, I don’t know man. You just don’t fucking do that. People Don’t Live That Way. never in my life have I ever seen anybody think it’s okay to live that way.”

So @supernokturnal I am gonna submit that the dynamics of this relationship are more defined by the supervisors (the one who is looked up to) Tertiary obsessions, which cause them to be a bit nitpicky with regard to their supervisee (the one who looks up), because the Supervisee has as their inferior the Supervisor’s Tertiary. And it’s a tough spot to be in because the Supervisee is embarassed and sensitive about their inferior weakness. So its like:

Supervisee:
Has Dominant function

Supervisor:
Has the same function but more elegantly.

Supervisee:
Lacks in the region of the inferior – is objectively worse here than the supervisor who has it in the tertiary

Supervisor:
Overestimates their own competency in the same function, which is their tertiary, and really hates to see people sucking at it, because we want to get everyone around us to make our Tertiary Their Problem Too. The Motivating Function; we wanna motivate others and shit. So Supervisor is hyperaware of Supervisee’s weaknesses here.

Meanwhile, Supervisor is like: “I love you to death supervisee. You are so talented. It’s very clear to me that if you would tone down all the (insert their dominant function here) and put more energy into (insert their inferior function here) you would pretty much be a rock star, like, I mean, really, you could be so great and you are shooting yourself in the foot.”

Supervisor sees the way forward for the supervisee and wants to mentor them. But they are wrong, instinctually. Totally fixable but it hurts to fix it.

I know because I have to fix it with ISTPs all the time, whom I supervise. I have their Ti in aux, and I have their inferior in Tertiary.

The last bit not yet mentioned is how your supervisor has this last trump card: they have as dominant function something that makes you squirm, something you don’t really see, something you miss, that seventh function, which is basically an unknown unknown and then later a known unknown or an unknown known perhaps. And Unknown known: something lurking either all the time or never, you just can’t figure it out. Can’t go over it, can’t go under it, can’t go through it. At least if it’s Fi, lol. I imagine the deep terrifying sensation that Fi causes me (part respect, part envy, part anger, part confusion, part rising anxiety, part animal fight or flight at the knowledge of an invisible force at work, part stubborn Ti being like Are You Fucking Kidding Me How Does This Count As Real, I Am Going To Speak Some Thinks I’m Thinking Out Loud Really Soon, part dread at how that always go, part sore back from sleeping weird places) might be different than the sensation that my own Supervisee, ISTP, would feel toward me when growing exhausted/annoyed/flabbergasted by Ne. Also, i vs e attidudenal differences likely could cast these relationships in a specific way dependent on whether the Supervisor is the Extoverted Dominant or the Introverted Dominant.

Anyway I know it’s hard as a supervisor to let go of the vision for the ISTP because in many ways when you do the relationship ends. A lot of the relationship is based on the tension that comes from this imagined future day in which the supervisee has improved to this degree where the supervisor is excited to see them being this epically phenomenal human being, Objectively Speaking. And then when it becomes suddenly clear that is never gonnna happen, it’s like, “oh, wait, I’ve been pretending you are someone you aren’t ISTP. And I’ve been pretending Im someone I’m not, INFP.” And collapse probably follows.

Better not to build the relationship on that fantasy.

Anyway.

I’ve only done this thinking for ENTP/INFP ISTP/ENTP so I am not sure if I have it right for everyone even from a socionics perspective.


#13

for realz? well i approve of you as in done deal. how would not approving work. i didn’t know this was a dynamic with entps. shoot. i have 2 good entp friends although they live too far away now, but am making plans. gonna consider whether they had this kind of dynamic. also i say entp Ne outclasses infp Ne any day in any way by the way. if i think of my entp friends, like i look up to them lol. my entp friend she is like that musical instrument pic you posted. she does everything with amazing originality, there is something completely entertaining about how she talks or the stuff she gets into. wonder if i have ever thought she needed Si advice or fixing… maybe, tis true, but like if anything i relate lol. other day packed a suitcase then realized flight had taken off 2 days prior. my own Si is challenged. but maybe sometimes i thought oh no maybe someone tell her not to go tell off the dept head right now (she made a performance out of it if i remember, composed a whole piece that she read out loud ?at a dept meeting? memory is fuzzy), but actually never did tell her.


#14

@stewart
have you observed supervisor/supervisee relations with your dad and mUm?
is that okay q to ask. you don’t have to answer


#15

WOW! This last post of yours is lovely to me.

And these paragraphs I have quoted are exactly what happened with my boyfriend who I very recently discovered is ENTJ. As a child [14] I had no idea what exactly was playing out, but looking back, this is just it. It was when the song
"Just the way you are" by Elton John became personally relevant to me.
He did really seem to like me, and to some degree as I was, but he kept verbalizing reasons/desires for me to be other.
And in fact, I do look up to ENTJ. I can listen and be encouraged and inspired, but I think to have an effect, I would have to have close proximity, or have one as a frequent relative [like ENTP brother as beneficent ] or a friend. And it would be crucial that they did love me, or care for me because my great uncle I think was ENTJ, and he and I did not mesh. I saw him rarely, I could feel his criticality but there was no affection to inspire change. I need to feel acceptance/affection [emotional] from supervisor to give a damn I think.
Lastly, I am drawn to ENTJ physically and would/do indeed wish their approval when rarely, I get a taste of it.
I also see them as hamsters in a wheel though.


#16

@johnonymous
I thought about the entp/infp dynamic some more.

You said something about Fi being there having unseen effects. I think I have noticed the other side of that. I am immediately attracted to most entps. I find them insanely attractive, especially a certain subtype. But one thing that eventually happens is that I can see their Fe seeking and flailing. What I mean is that every now and then my Fi will just force their Fe into action. It actually distresses me to observe this. It’s distressing when you see people either “pulled” to Fe or walking on egg shells or self censoring due to your Fi. It looks like entp Fe is not under their full control. On the flip side, because they cannot always read my Fi (who can is what I wanna know, what the hell is Fi for) they will sometimes not find the easy background reassurance entps actually do need. We hang out best in Ne mode. I used to hang out with two entp friends at once and that’s what worked best. It was just a huge Ne fest and I don’t think I’ve ever met an entp who doesn’t enjoy aux Ne. We also had some common interests.


#17

One of my best friends is an INTP. Are you saying you think they are going to inevitably decide I am a worthless fraud and dump the friendship?!?! nooooooo :sob: :confounded: :expressionless: :skull:

Can’t I just be better and problem solved? What the heck do fully functioning Si and Ti even look like? I don’t really know to be honest. What I thought was Ti is actually Te, and what I thought was Te is more like Se. What are Ti and Si minimums???


#18

A couple of people in another thread were saying how they see Fe manifesting in INTJs as getting preachy about keeping in touch with people…I don’t really do that…
I am pretty bad with phone calls now, though I have a vague recollection of being okay with it when I was younger…

IF I am INTJ, maybe Fe-mins for me should be keeping in touch with people close to me and expressing my affection? haha, if I suddenly start calling people, they’re going to assume something is wrong…
But I do quite a lot of Fe type activities though, like morning pages, music and stuff, which I enjoy… so maybe that is why “actual people” get lesser time from me…
I think I am affectionate with some people though.

@supernokturnal , if you get the time, do frame a questionnaire for distinguishing between INXJs, your dart-like questions are fun to read :slight_smile:


how to detect INXJ
#19

That’s a very perceptive question, @lunar!

I’m not especially familiar with socionics and their terminology, but I had a long discussion with my brother when I was recently staying with him in London about our parent’s relationship. We both agreed that Mum (an ESFP) is basically the dominant partner over our INFP dad. It’s not immediately obvious since ESFPs are not forceful or demanding in the usual sense, but she does it in small ways using her dominant Se to nitpick all the Sensory areas where he falls down. Like she always reprimands him for spilling food or drink on his clothes or the floor (they usually eat meals sitting in their recliner chairs in their lounge) and he apologises every time and immediately gets up to clean up the “mess”. To put this in perspective, he is so dreamy and Sensing-challenged that I can’t remember a time when he didn’t spill his food, it happens every single time he eats or drinks anything!

Most of the time we are talking a few crumbs or droplets of liquid that the rest of my family don’t even register, but her Se is so acute that she immediately calls him out for doing it. And then there’s the endless cleaning and tidying they both waste hours of their lives on, simply because Mum insists that their teeny-tiny apartment has to be kept pristine and spotless at all times. Honestly, she typically looks at their (seemingly) immaculate rooms and proclaims out loud how filthy and untidy they are and how much work she must keep doing to keep them clean and tidy. It’s gotten so bad that I now laugh out loud whenever she does it!

I have inherited similar tendencies from her, I’m afraid, but because my Se is my inferior function, it only manifests when my living spaces are truly messy and disordered, (I live with an ENTP so have had to get used to living with his typical chaos and disregard for tidiness!). And my ISFP brother has rebelled completely and lives with a level of dust and hoarding that must drive Mum completely batty.


#20

And don’t get me started on the washing and ironing! I tried to help out when I was with them recently, and I simply could not believe the sheer quantity of laundry that two tidy and retired old people could possibly generate in a few days of quiet living!

I gently questioned Mum about it and discovered that she washes practically everything after a single use, including clothes, towels, linen and bedclothes. And everything has to be neatly ironed and folded after washing, including underwear, towels and bedsheets! Not that she does this herself any more; she now hires some poor lady to do most of the endless ironing and folding for her…


#21

And now that I think about it, Mum uses her tertiary Te to organise their lives, pay bills, track their social calendar etc. I’m sure Dad is very grateful to her for this, since if it was left to his inferior Te, their affairs would be a mess and they would most likely have spent all their savings on his mad schemes (this used to happen fairly frequently when I was young and Mum still let him take charge of things).