@lunar I truly believe exposing them to all different kinds of activities and experiences will help in the beginning, even if they don’t seem to dig them. I love the idea of attempting to be well-rounded and open-minded. What do you think?
And at what age can you type people?
Nah, I think kids need lots of help and support! I didn’t receive much as a kid, and yeah, they can take care of themselves, but not very well.
I don’t know. But for example, my daughter is 6. She appears to be a “pusher”. Like she won’t manipulate to get what she wants. She won’t simply ask either. She will PUSH literally with her body. So it’s very marked already at age 6. She also likes people. So I’m thinking she is ESXX. I think SOMEONE would know her type by now. I think it’s all there.
yes i agree with Air
the fact that you’re even attempting is awesome.
and i do think that exposing her to different areas are great too.
because if i wasn’t exposed to many Ni and Ne stuff, i don’t know if i’d be who i am right now.
it’s just that i didn’t get to do much of Se stuff , not as much as i wanted to.
i think as long as you don’t ‘neglect’ her desires, it won’t be too much of problem.
but at the same time not spoiling it too much.
she should ‘work’ for it. or do something to ‘deserve’ it. or remember to show appreciation.
because when something is given too easily, kids might start taking things for granted and you don’t want that.
Exactly. What is the point is this shit isn’t going to be useful in the real world. And it is very useful if understood correctly and applied instead of endless navel-gazing and going in circles theoretically with it (which is admittedly cool too).
Hmmm…probaly depends on who you are…as a parent…and simply as a person. And we all know that Myers-Briggs type + astrology is very pertinent to both those things.
So, you know you are an INFP. We all know it.
So, you’d have to take into account your parenting style (probaly pretty bonded and close with your children) and first and foremost, what your strengths and weaknesses are. Type will tell us some of that.
I personally believe in a sort of Parents First type of model of parenting. It’s no use to do things for or with your kids that are unsustainable for you. I think you gotta figure out first what you want to do and what is sustainable for you. If you place the kids needs first (too much) I think it can lead to resentment, for one thing.
I also think there is too much focusing on kids needs in this day and age. I’ll just put that out there. I don’t care if it’s not politically correct to say that. Kids can go fuck themselves. Kids used to play with sticks and make whole worlds out of that shit. Kids can be bored and be responsible for creating their own entertainment. Sorry, getting on a soapbox there. [quote=“lunar, post:1, topic:280”]
But like at what age do you start helping with weaker areas?
I’m also a proponent of Strengths First type of parenting, and indeed, in life in general. Focus on the strengths of any given person, situation, etc. and you will be a lot better off than if you focus on their weak areas.
I think too much emphasis is placed on being well-rounded these days and parents put their kids in a head-spinning amount of activities in order to maximize their chances of success.
Kids will be successful when they are doing something they like and are good at. Sound familiar?
So, play always and heavily to their strengths. Notice what their dominant characteristics are. These are not accidental. If you notice a child is “pushy”, it’s probaly not just you. It’s probaly an important trait about them.
Cater to it.
Also, another thing in this politically correct age we are living in (which I think is on it’s way out thank god). So-called negative traits are necessarily negative. Like, being pushy, for example.
It isn’t something that needs to be eradicated. Some people are naturally pushy and take leadership and such. Facilitate it and minimize the negatives of it.
One of the ways you can minimize the negatives of it is by putting the child into activities that absorb and validate that kind of setup.
I think parenting is rather simple (not) if you simply notice and encourage the traits in the child that are their natural strengths and maximize their opportunities for them to exercise those strengths.
Like, if your child is an asshole, then sign them up for activities where they will succeed as an asshole.
Don’t try to remold them into a perfectly well-adapted and politically correct nicely behaved angel child.
The beautiful thing to me about Myers-Briggs is that it takes into account opposing modes of operation and doesn’t assign a right or wrong to any of them. It’s simply the rules. The setup (if you subscribe to that system, that is).
And there are fairly clear and simple rules in the Myers-Briggs system.
Like, if you have an ENTJ child, you’re not going to put them into art therapy classes or something like that. Simple.
There’s a lot of common sense to the Myers-Briggs system.
Got an ISFP child. Don’t put them in leadership roles. Expose them to a musical instrument or some kinds of craft art early on. They like to work with their hands. They like to beautify.
Yeah, someone should really write a manual of MBTI for parents and their kids because, yes, you can identify a kid’s preferences and likely type pretty early on.
I can spot an ENTP boy from a mile away. [quote=“lunar, post:1, topic:280”]
Like what would be some guidelines for parents that aren’t particularly psychologically penetrating?
I’ll type your kids, lunar. I’d just need to spend about a week (maybe less) with them. The general rule is that the younger the kid is, the harder they are to type. Because when a kid is an infant, they are like little indistinct blobs that all tend to resemble each other. They have very simple preferences and needs at that stage - milk and touch and shit like that.
The older a child is (especially after around 7 or so) the more the things that distinguish them from other kids start to emerge more clearly.
That being said, I can tell the MB types of pretty young kids often enough. Or at least I think I can. Of course, there is no one that can tell me I’m right or wrong.
But, I also think a lot of it common sense. You don’t even need the categories of Myers-Briggs. If a kid is pushy, they’re pushy, ya know? That gives you certain information and likelihoods of success in x, y, or z directions.
For one thing, if a kid is pushy, I say give them some things to push. Like, they can stop pushing around their younger sibling and start pushing a mop or something.
Or if they like to push people around then give them opportunities to do this in a positive way.
Pushy children are often weak in sensitivity to others feelings, for example. But, if they don’t have opportunities to use the strength side of being pushy, then, they are going to be pushy in inappropriate ways or repressed and angry because they weren’t given opportunities to be who they are.
I think a lot of the job of the parent is to be aware of the child’s natural propensities and identify positive avenues for its expression.
A lot of parenting is just avoiding making huge mistakes. Like pushing your child into unsuitable directions for its temperament for whatever litany of reasons that this is usually done for.
Well said. Parents try to do too much for their kids. They sacrifice their own lives for their kids and then wear it as a badge of honor, when it does no good for anyone. Just a lot of resentment and martyrdom and burned out unhappy people.
Yeah, and I think one of the biggest mistakes parents make is trying to “correct” for their own perceived lack in childhood. If you’re dissatisfied with your position in life, it’s easy to blame your parents for it. Then when you have your own kids, if you’re not careful you can take on this fanatical desire to fix it through them. “I have given you all the opportunities I didn’t have” without stopping to think if those opportunities are even suitable to your child. And so the pendulum swings hard in the other direction. The sins of the parents keep passing on from generation to generation, and you get all this ugly family drama.
I think you have to forgive your own parents to a certain degree (whatever they did or did not do) before you have your own children.
Lol. Just come on over:) We live in the swamps. But yeah, I have a feeling you’d know my daughter’s type very quickly. For some reason. She has so much personality. My boy is just 3 and is more invisible. But that itself is a clue.
I like this popular Indian proverb: kids are guests in your house, feed them, teach them and let them go.
There is this book by Julie Lithcott-Haims How to Raise an Adult. It’s all about Overparenting. That’s interesting that it was my husband who’s bought it but forgot to read and wanted to make a sportswoman of our 4-years old daughter
She attended this well packed kindergarten with a lot of additional activities. And what I have noticed. She hates gymnastics (maybe because of her severe trainer). She says I’m bored of dancing (notwithstanding her teacher is great). But she is ok with painting classes. I’ve also noticed that during physical activities she’s getting involved and is dancing and making exercises in good mood in general. But other kids are somehow more relaxed. I don’t know. She’s looking like a soldier, not to say artificial but just like a doer also seeking for praise and maybe perfectionistic.
Have thought about this a lot lately. I’m sort of in limbo trying to finish teaching degree, and also trying to decide whether to go through with it or abandon it altogether, maybe even considering school counseling instead (which would require totally different certifications/degree/etc. but, maybe worth it if its a better fit).
I think a lot about how so many problems with education are rooted in our failure to understand that we cannot have a one-size-fits all approach to education. (partially why I’m reluctant to get into teaching, it’s not exactly welcoming of new ideas/approaches) I’m not saying we should have different schools for different MBTI types, but like, why don’t school teachers and/or counselors use it in high school to help kids figure out the best way for them to approach challenges in school as well as problems in their day-to-day lives?
Instead we just create more and more dependence-reinforcing support systems which inevitably cannot support the weight of the consequences of America’s economic/social problems. I’m not saying get rid of support systems, just stop creating conditions which drive people to depend on them. Even for kids who are relatively successful, I think most are inhibited from reaching their potential because of our one-size-fits-all approach.
I could go on and on about problems with education, but there’s no good reason why we don’t expose kids to this and at least give them them some extra tools for how to understand themselves and how to best approach personal & interpersonal problems so that they can learn how to learn from mistakes & failures rather than just falling into cyclical patterns of repeating them which often extend into adulthood (or result in them falling into drug addiction or crime at a heartbreakingly young age).
We have to look at ourselves. Our stumbling blocks. Where are you weak? Cause it is going to be looking back at you, and you’ll not be able to blame them. Not if you have an ounce of introspection. When you point your finger and say, ‘work on that!’ you might as well be pointing back at yourself.
My kids have Fe and Fi finesse. Ne and Ni no problem.
Se and Si? We try, and often I hang my head in shame. Te and Ti? Rocky territory, some tripping fo sho.
I think it is helpful to know where your weakness and their weakness will meet, hence learning their MBTI. These are going to be their challenges. This is where frustration will enter again and again, for both of you. Because they are struggling and so are you and both feel somewhat powerless.
I did not begin with MBTI until my youngest kids were nearing their teens. But I could tell what their strengths were without it. I agree with Blake that we play to their strengths. Give them the advantage of confidence/opportunity in what comes naturally. That way they have assets/bravery with which to pull through when the going gets tough.
None of us is without a set of shadow functions. But look to yours first. They will follow your example, when and whether you are pulling a fist down and shouting YES! Or blowing it on a grand scale.
I am not saying they will make all your same mistakes. Sometimes they see you trip up and have what it takes to avoid that particular trap. Sometimes they turn around and inspire you to make some changes. Chances are when this happens, the strength to do so is right there in their stack. They are better equipped to use X than you are.
T’is impossible to be perfect. Helps to be self aware.
Your grip is gonna give you fits and there will be many starts.
I think MBTI can be helpful as flexible framework to understand yourself and others. Trying to cram people into 16 boxes and assume you know what they should be good at and need to work on limits potential. Pushing an XSTP kid toward sports and expecting they’ll be a superstar might pan out, then again could lead to a lot of frustration on both sides. Mostly kids need love and they need to play. Also, they need love and they need to play. Let them follow their nature, which may not be what you think it is and sometimes they’ll change. My 16 year old XNTP hated school art projects, this summer he’s into sketching and drawing.
@jamsz I feel you. I taught college for a couple of years and it wasn’t for me. Even adults are put into a one-size-fits all box. I love education, but formal education is at least 50 years behind the times. I was all for experimentation and (real??) thinking and blah blah blah, but by the time adults become adults it’s so ingrained in them that students/teachers behave a certain way and do certain types of assignments. It’s sadly semi-inescapable, so I got the hell out!
I agree and I think there is an ideological angle here so it has to be admitted I agree with @blake’s philosophy generally regarding parenting as described above, not because I know it works but because it nods to the realities of existence that I see.
Imagine if the Yellowstone Supervolcano erupted in our lifetime (it wont) and the world went into a ten year ice age which caused an itty bitty pausing of food production capacity worldwide and left a foot of toxic ash across the western United States, upending society. Worst case scenario would be like some version of Cormac Mcarthy’s The Road. All our concerns over parenting would shift a lot.
I use this dramatic example because I think on a smaller scale it’s important to note that our current concerns about parenting are very unique to the time.
There isn’t any way to prepare kids for the future really except for by not screwing up too badly. And I think screwing up too badly mostly means fooling kids into thinking they need more than they need or fooling them into thinking any particular thing is so high stakes as to be viscerally planned for or feared. Obv my Ne makes me feel like this so that is what it is. No doubt in the apocalypse my prospects for “having a good afternoon” rise significantly and in a steady, comfortable world they decline over time and require an increasingly uncomfortable balance of exploring enough to survive mentally and towing the line enough not to have freedoms totally restricted by society.
But I still think it’s the case that everybody has their role In the apocalypse.
At any rate, it’s not a good idea to have a goal for your kids to be happy, healthy, or “more ____ than I was” in my view. It’s a far better idea to work on ourselves and just try to make sure the kids feel accepted for being themselves and feel like they’ve got one person in their corner basically no matter what. Like unconditional love, without unconditional caretaking and unconsitional personal, legal, or financial bailout. My kids are gonna get their night in jail is what I mean, and when I pick them up at my convenience I’m not gonna be all weird about it. like I’m not the law; I’ve got no beef with them.