STELLAR MAZE DISCUSSION FORUM

Ne+Te = truth outside?

that rate is higher than mine. mine is more at 20:D

No, I got it mixed up. You said error rate, I mixed it with effective rate. If you think it is 20, no wonder… just no wonder it is a sore spot for him. I think he is far more effective than 20% and I’m sure yours is much higher too.

Everyone has a “problem”. Mine is Te. It’s taken me a lifetime, it’s taking the whole damm lifetime to learn to manage that. But also to forgive myself about it. I wouldn’t want to start my life over, but I could have done without all the problems that inferior Te has caused. I’ve had to just accept that a day at work can send me home completely DONE. I’m just DONE. It could also be the Se. And when you teach you go home and you grade and you prepare more. But then you got to be the cool parent to your kids. I’m not sure why I am built this way. It’s very hard to accept this about myself. There is so much shame attached to Te. I’m also good at it strangely. But it just feels like shit. Right now during coronavirus quarantine I’ve had such good Te moments. Te has been an actual pleasure. But when it’s nonstop for work, it’s like a problem that I have like all infps I guess. It’s just hard to be you know humble about a problem. Sometimes I describe to my intp how miserable the teaching makes me and he misunderstands the point. I don’t feel too special to have a job. In fact, the guilt of not working has been so much that I am back at the teaching job. I always feel guilty not working. One of the things I’ve had the hardest time learning, it’s even more shameful, is to just suffer without complaining. I complain to release that awful tension. I actually think stress tears is what I need to learn to do. Go cry tears instead of complain. So embarrassing. To have that kind of tension. At the job, it’s only certain aspects that drive me nuts. Giving out grades. Student evaluations (my job hiring letter just now said I have to NAIL student comments). What! How the hell can I do that. I’m always thinking the math is beautiful show the beauty. The outcome is “worst teacher on campus” and so on. Anyhow, no I do not think I am a special snowflake. That’s not it. I simply am using a lifetime to learn to properly manage the tension inside. I find myself saying things like “I know I sound like a bitch right now but I just need 30 minutes alone” stuff like that. It’s a release of tension before an explosion. And I sound like a bitch. I’ll also just snap if someone implies I think I’m special. Like I’ll just bark at them and bite their head off. I’m such a snowflake that I want them to appreciate that I actually do think I should just be working for the sake of everyone. That message has definitely been drilled into me from somewhere and totally internalized. I go and do it. Please appreciate this about me I’m screaming inside. So snowflake that doesn’t actually think she is a snowflake. I am one but I don’t think I am one.

That venting…it’s like a sin of mine…

So shameful.

I’ve been hanging out with my isfp friend and I saw her Te struggles and for some reason it helped me to try and forgive myself. Because I could see her shame about it and I didn’t want her to feel the shame and then it was like such a mirror.

I actually believe the guilt just sort of triggers the Te more.

You just have to admit sometimes you have a problem to work on.

I find it helpful to call it “my problem”. Or “my infp problem”. It just helps take the edge off. Because no matter what I have to keep getting better at it. It’s an imperative. Te has been the one imperative that keeps getting stronger. I give into it more and more getting older. I guess thank god.

It’s also not a real problem. There are real problems and this isn’t one of them.

Isn’t that the greatest shame of them all?

So much shame.

I don’t actually have any real problems in my life.

Well now I have grossed myself out.

This was all triggered by being asked if I would rather teach this course or that course (both are god awful, lol, just the worst junk, like I will just do it but oh my fucking god it really does destroy me. am not a special snowflake guess yes I am it WILL kill me no it won’t this shit kills nobody)

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Seeing this from your perspective really, really helps! From my perspective, I’ve given him grief in different ways over this. One is sitting stoically to listen until I just can’t anymore and become impatient and apathetic but I’m not the one working all the damn time, so I suck it up as best I can and give as much understanding as I can, and gratitude and doing better of late, I think. And I think being better heard decreases the sufferings.
I was built kinda stoic [and just for fun if ISTP moon, then doubles]. But it’s like holding your shit in. Bad, very, very unhealthy for you. And some of the result of his expounding on work or suffering of other kinds was that everyone asked about him to me, when I was also suffering, but silently or so infrequently or with so little emphasis, that it was not remembered. So I’ve taken the permission to say when things are especially bad, mostly to him, but occasionally to others as needed.

I think I may have just quoted like 75% of your post. I’m shit with numbers though, so?

I have so much shame built into Se, but I think I best write that seperate from this post.
My husband has this compulsion for Te, almost like yeah, a shame or lack, a social lack, for not living up to both his and society’s expectations. And yeah, again, same with Se for me. For me that lack of humble is that I don’t want to be seen trying and failing? But I’m seen failing all the time, so wtf? Trying might be worth trying.

Yeah, he would have a hard time with that, too. From my position as parent, all I ever wanted from the comments if given was something to let me see that you see my child, that they are on your radar. Some tiny comment that I will recognize as pertaining to them. Does not have to be long at all. Just accurate. But like thirty of those? Ack! I am often shocked at what is expected from teachers.

And this is where being a woman becomes being a bitch. When my husband really needs to leave, he leaves. If he needs a nap, he takes one. If he needs to go ride his motorcycle, he won’t just go without talking to me, but he will state that it is going to happen tomorrow or whenever and is there some reason I have for not a certain time. So he doesn’t have to be an ass, just direct and employing self care, which is… I think I don’t wanna make this post that long…

No, totally fair to ask for appreciation for something that is hard for you, Te in fourth. The accessibility of functions has really helped me with understanding how challenging things can be for people and how hard they may actually be trying when in fact may not look like trying because it is so hard. Really fucking hard. Not gonna be stoic here. So fucking hard. And so much fucking shame.

It would seem so. But often the compulsion go a bit reckless.

Hmmm, neither do I then, but boy do I.

Your probably shouldn’t though. I am serious. My intp basically hates listening to me and it’s been so good for me. Oh my god, I feel so full of shame right now fuck. Btw, when I’m being bad, I know that I am. Those vents are really evil.

Evil in that you want to like proverbially rope him while you vent?

I sort of learned that actually, it’s like being an adult. Trust me. Maybe let it out into a notebook or something. But a person that doesn’t keep their shit in IS a walking mess.

Evil because it’s damage. I guess I call evil that which is causing damage around you. I think our inferior functions have evil in them.

And so we have to own them. Which is really really hard.

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And yet he’s afraid he’ll hurt me by grabbing my ass too hard.

Oh yeah, I’ve cost people a lot for not having a handle on Se. Me and everyone close to me.
I am trying to own it, but it is really slow and I keep slipping.

it’s universal to have inferior function problems. i’m sorry this whole thing got a little out of hand. honestly I’m so embarrassed i’m gonna disappear. lord.

<3 <3 to you. <3<3

I really appreciate your side. I get the shame. You don’t see me posting any pictures of after I fucked everything up, do you? But I am going to try to talk about it. I am also still going to talk about myself in my life and time, it has been cooking.
It was much better as a child [Se], before tragedy and unending responsibility. Or mayhap like my moon had better access to me? I like kicking the moon about a bit to consider things. Consider nurture and nature and other phenomena.
Also it doesn’t seem out of hand to me. To you, I see, but it won’t be for me until I try.
Also so easy to get lost in the maze.

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I calmed down lol, I totally crumpled in the bathroom. Even though I’ve got no problems in life. Absurd!

The comments alluded to in the hiring letter are the comments students (adults) write about the teacher. I need to nail those. I usually have terrible letters of evaluation. What is scary is sometimes the more I put into it the worse the letters are. The more I try to be THAT organized teacher who gives you the plan for the whole semester, whose every lecture is a masterpiece of saying just the right things in just the right order, assigning just the right problems in just the right frequency. Who can keep different sections resembling each other. Etc. It’s frustrating to say the least and I just fill up with self doubt. BUT enough about that.

Actually maybe our inferior functions are not evil. Maybe that’s the journey. To embrace them for the good they carry. I don’t know. It’s kind of tricky with the inferior.

Blake says work on the auxiliary and superego.

Like a bypass. Sometimes that Te is like such a commanding imperative though–the bypass thing is tricky.

“Se giving way to Ne embrace” taking Ni? pressure off Te.

It’s funny, sometimes the auxiliary feels good and sometimes it doesn’t seem to meet the imperatives, like a cheap cheat. But I guess sometimes you gotta cheat. I’d like to know why the easier way seems harder and feels so reckless. What a joke. When teaching it seems harder because it’s mostly isjs isps and esps (nurses and kinesiology) and they ain’t got time for Ne math trips. But somehow I should EMBRACE THAT TOO. Holy fuck. Am gonna EMBRACE the challenge of using Ne in the classroom. Like some fucking voodoo ninja shit that like nobody ever tells you is okay to do, but maybe it is. It solves math problems doesn’t it. It’s math isn’t it? Man o man…so 2 levels of Ne, one for the math, and one for the fact that students don’t like math Ne but they like people Ne and so therefore you’re gonna have to bridge that. Making it the true Ne that is needed. Make it work like a freaking circus clown. As the pressure weans off Te give it a final Te finishing touch from time to time. Like a bow. Sounds totally retarded. Could it work?

“Te giving way to Fe (so do express the inside @TinyYellowTree , DO)” taking Fi? pressure off Se.

Then less pressure on the inferiors. So funky.

So, I can’t seem to just do things like with balance or in the moment conscientious choices to do with the reality of my wreck. Se? I envy the grace and intelligence of tertiary Si. Not perfect, maybe not as easy as Dom or Aux Si, but helpful physically/healthfully. The ability to lecture on something you know, do something again like you’ve done it before. Or perhaps others of my ilk can, might more be me.

So Te through Fe using Fi to alleviate Se [?] But back to above where I said I lack… self discipline in a sense, but it’s also just the way I work, full on and Te needs no discipline to go when it is what I want. When I am on, I am so on. I write all day long and into the night and don’t want to go to sleep. Things that prevent me, irritate me. Full on focus till my eyes refuse to stay open.
But then I don’t care about food so much, and just eat whatever [nutritious snacks, more on that later] I can find and tend here and there to things like dog walking, but SO much is not getting done. Like I can’t just do a bit of everything every day, like yeah, laundry, outside work, switch it up. Nope. And Infrequent exercise. Why is that so hard ,to get out and take a walk [cause I have to drive to a place I like to walk, don’t like neighborhoods, need woods, but still why so hard?] My husband, tertiary Si, does it so naturally, he’ll walk anywhere. He just knows it makes him feel better and he does it. I know it makes me feel better and I sit and write and make poor health choices while inhaling information, like so much I fill up and it’s sad because I remember so little. So like gorge or starve with the Te/Se. Te directed for Fe feels so happy, so right, like fucking.
Te directed at others is reckless and barely controllable, clumsy and hurtful. Am I saying any of what you were asking for? You said express the inside, you mean what I am doing? Writing? Or did you mean here? If I do here, without morning pages, yikes. Because the raw leaks and then I delete what I often consider my humanity for a perfection that after years I find to be a bad [funny gods funny] joke on me. But how not fun and how not educational to see nothing but control when I can be the poster girl for ‘unhealthy infj’ warning: don’t do this or here you’ll be. No, I think I prefer eking out and oozing like a bad job of caulking. This may be wrong thinking. Like my history with wrong foods. Like some can get away with it, but can I?

So the comments are on you! Gods! Totally different. But here is where I’m gonna say what I was hoping to fit in somewhere, which is if your father could see you here, man oh man! Like so much is left hidden with people and here we are so lucky to know you.
So with that in mind, I think trying too hard to be what is expected [like trying to bend unnaturally for comments when being you might work beautifully if you tried it] and not actually being yourself is where problems arise. My favorite teachers were always the one’s whose self shone through and who allowed themselves room to be.
And this thing where father’s just see us as chasing kids, doing dishes and talking about whatever if anything because busy, tired and distracted is just such a tragedy. I feel like my role as mom is boring in its monotony [fuck how do you spell that?] which does not seem avoidable. I find me blank if looking from out there, or blank and particular, which is worse. Just so much that has to be dealt with that there is no energy left for ‘you’ to come to the surface in any tangible/meaningful way. Just fucking towing the line and exhausted till ‘looking together’ becomes a shredded illusion.
So now, the Ne that is you. The Ne in math. I hates math where I have to make formulas work [nightmare incompetence]. I like math theory. I like math Ne, but it has to be idea heavy/detail [formula] light. And if I was in class, and you did this, ah the relief, I’d listen with delight. Would not matter if I fully understood, let my neighbor understand, and let me just breathe in the Ne.

Joke, yeah. It seems to have gotten slippery for me, Fe. Careless… feels ineffectual, no, just too tired. The energy feels fake, like I can do it but I feel like my heart not being in it is visible. So I avoid it. I avoid having to spend energy on Fe that is just tiring and does not give back what it requires in spades. So even though I can for a bit, if I have to kick off auto and reach in… I have to scrape the dregs for something, anything… and I feel badly saying this.
It’s people in my space, or my having to go people. Hence why I am online, on my bum, and trying to be me.
But what I was trying to say was that auto is not what you want. You want naturally fulfilling. What is legit you, so in that way it is both natural, for me anyhow, takes courage. Like if I was Fe-ing honestly [expressing myself harmoniously, not trying to be what everyone needs or I think they need], I would not have to dredge, which I should not be doing anyhow. I would offer what I am, which would be right, but not cheaty. Perhaps my cheaty is different from yours, if I crossed paths, then oops.

Wow @TinyYellowTree, I loved that so open. That was great. I wonder if you feel more or less tired after writing it?

I know! I was really musing on it and I really think it’s a cosmic joke but also cosmic gift. Why should Fe work? Why should Ne work? Why???

I think it must have to do with energy. But it might be more a mystery. A trick. I really don’t know.

I don’t think it solves ANY problems either. There are probably no shortcuts. But it does something to the psyche. And that might actually be even more important. I don’t know.

As for Fe-ing here on the maze or elsewhere I would imagine that’s just up to you how or where.

But I actually did really love what you wrote. Also Fe is not the fake function:) It’s the Fe function.

But I understand what you’re saying. The auxiliary seems to violate the ambitious goals of the dominant and even id, lol, it’s the greatest irony. That’s why maybe the superego is needed. So seems to violate some pretty deeply held goals and also seems to avoid the actual problem. No? So guess we don’t have to think of it as solving the problem but as increasing energy to solve the problem.

I think one can drain on the auxiliary as well. In fact, “running the ship” appears to be DAMM tricky, lol.

Truly I don’t know…

it really does take a lifetime doesn’t it. Just a lifelong journey.

Maybe it takes energy to use the auxiliary in the first place though. To be robbed of one’s energy.

I feel you on this. It’s a bit of a cruel discovery when you’re a parent. I think you’re making the point it’s particularly tough on low Se/low Si?

that was a really sweet thing to say. that’s some really good Fe:)

If I allow myself my sloppiness and my run on sentences that look like the house that jack built, and when getting hold of my intent can be like trying to round up cats… and if I put my trust in you guys to know my intent is not to insult or disrespect-- because when I’m direct, I always feel I am risking that [though there is also a part of me that wants to push/cross boundaries, the part that relates to ENTP’s and I think you know it when you see it], and yet it often seems to be I can either be genuinely me [with ouch and fuck what are you talking about? potential] or the Fe that is focused on others and requires paying a lot of attention to who I am talking to [ that drains energy].
If I allow myself to forgo the Fe that is protective and avoidant, then it is pretty easy and not very tiring.
I have known you long enough that I feel mostly safe with forgoing some of the draining Fe for expressive Fe and not worry you’ll search out my stumbles and take offense.

I know it is my cross to bear. Done right, it is not fake and I do care, and I try, so in that sense it’s not fake, but when there is no energy, no desire, that feels awful, feels fake. It feels fake when I make myself do it when I should not be. Like it is hard to allow myself to forgo the alleviating Fe and when I just can’t and go hide… this makes me think of the Rising. Vile bitch. I can’t even stomach her right now. Shit eating grin or shame, take your pick.

When Fe used carelessly, yes. And sometimes used at all. Ni needs alone. Quiet. Not bothered.
The id… I’m finding is best expressed via my story. Like Te-ing at other people, having my id run loose is also not helpful. It needs parameters and a more indirect expression. Or direct but suffused, not directed at someone but at people? Shit.

So very, very, very tricky. Tightrope walking.
Like I said, my ship is a wreck. I’m surprised it is still floating. It’s definitely listing. The bilge is worrisome.

Yes, probably. I don’t know, everyone has their trials with low functions, like you said. Just makes different things more difficult. But having trouble staying in the moment, being in the moment and providing the necessary moments, yeah. Appointments are ughhh! Te-ing junk mail and paperwork is ughhh! Dotted lines and spotted T’s. Red tape.

I like these (I think I know what you mean) and I really like this one:D

Your typing request today or yesterday with the music videos, your question sounded like a dream:)

I’m glad because I know infps we are known to be a bit scary to talk to.

I hope on the maze you feel free to post should you feel like it. All kinds of stuff has been posted here. Perhaps it’s safer than in person even? I don’t know. I’m assuming people are acting a bit different to how they normally would. I’d like to think it feels safer…that would be really cool. A place for things that just cannot happen elsewhere. I mean it already seems to be that, never seen a place quite like it. We’ve all been dragged by Blake. Lol.

Now it’s just us dragging ourselves or something and making sense of that which cannot be made sense of which is one way to summarize personality. Lol.

I find INFP’s fairly forgiving and reasonable if communicated with over issues.

And yeah, having an avatar makes it easier to expose, but in the back of my mind I know how thin the veil is. And curiously, I think my reasons for withholding go back to Se shame of all things.
One of the things though that came to my attention was my mortality, especially with this covid. What if one day I just disappeared from here? Why not just go ahead and let go? Course it doesn’t always work and I still delete…

I don’t know why this aroused a very protective feeling in me, I really wish it was as simple as reaching in there with my hands and just dumping out some water for you and letting that little ship sail.

Hope that’s not too weird for you.

No, not weird… kind.