Objectivity -> relativity | Subjectivity -> absolute


#1

Thinking about the object orientation of the Ne/Si axis. that is, the Extroverted Intuition and Introverted Sensing preference for perception.

Thinking that there is a relativity to all things in this axis, that any one thing is like and unlike another thing; it’s this like and unlikeness that gives the thing existence in a sense, and so, yes, the ENTP for example would like to rank, stack, compare, contrast the objects, put a hat on this one, put some boots on that one, play with words/things by setting them against each other. All the comparison functions as a way of lining shit up to discover the nature of all the things.

This results in a local relativity. Within given space, all the things are defined in terms of whatever else is nearby.

The Ni/Se observational axis, Extroverted Sensing and Introverted Intuition, on the other hand, is more Subject oriented, more related to the Seer who sees. So things exist as they are seen by the seer. They are what they appear, their truth being what is seen, what comes to you.

The distance I’ve traveled on comprehending @Blake when he said “it’s true because it came to you” is pretty surprising actually; I think I understand and appreciate this way of finding truth a lot better now. I don’t just mean I can appreciate it anthropologically, but that I can appreciate it’s strengths and where it outperforms my own preference toward compare and contrast, relative comparison, and local relativity.

I can see that there are margins of error in both forms of perception, though I feel that the margins of error in the Objective/Relative Ne/Si space are askew the margins of error in the Subjective/Absolute Se/Ni space, like tilting slightly into the 3rd dimension so from ENTP typical dimensional perspective, it’s harder to measure the margin of error in Ni/Se than it is in Ne/Si, so for ENTP the Ni/Se perceptive stance looks occasionally reckless. “You know you have a margin of error but can you know how large it is?” Is the worry of the Ne dom Ti aux watching INxJ do their magic.

I’m starting to realize that this issue of margin of error being askew, leaving Ni and Ne users looking at each other as occasionally “reckless,” is nothing more than basically practice, practice by the other in that “askew” (relative to us) stance. So it makes sense that ENTP slides back toward Ne/Ti even when (per socionics ID block) Ni is an equal strength for the personality to Ne. Using Ni requires a sort of tilting to the side and turning a bit into myself that is actually quite doable but it’s the QA afterward, the attempt to measure and discern the margins of error, to correct the mistakes, and how to revise, that starts to make my shin bones and tendons feel I’m out of sorts and need to get back to my element.

At any rate I love it, love learning more about a more Subjective/Absolute way of viewing the world. I am benefiting a lot from doing a little more of that askew perceiving.

just a thought.

Okay and another thought


I’ve edited this other thought to become a comment below. It’s not as put together. More commenty.


#2

that’s like one my favorite things he ever wrote:)
but like thinking about Trump say… i have loved this new perspective on truthiness.


#3

Other thought

Lunar was complimenting me (OR SO I FELT) and as I do when people compliment me I walked around in circles thinking “oh yeah I really am great just like they said I wonder why.”

So here is the result of that, I was thinking that basically, the ENTP can appear at times like a pretty introverted personality. Ne I think tends to require isolation; Socialization interrupts it in a sense. Lacking Se, the Ne user really doesn’t have a good handle on boundaries and basically the Ne process is just really permeable and easily cut through by some outside assault.

Ne users interrupt more because they occasionally see the whips of threads of things slide through their mind and are like, wanting to grab them and see if they can like, spin up a bubble of space for their brain to fucking function within. Otherwise they are just sitting there listening thinking “I wonder if I’m about to be asked something about something I was supposed to be doing.”

ENTP are probably more cold/distant socially than they appear, just like INxJ is more fluid, imaginative, and warm then they sometimes appear. ENTP when interrupted will almost always be friendly unless they have developed skills for protecting themselves. But I suspect this skills are mostly isolation, rejecting overtures, not answering the phone, etc. I mention that ENTP are more distant and cold than they appear because I think that in truth the ENTP seems more fun loving than they are, just like a child seems like, more good than they are. They even fooled Jesus. Ehhh, I’m not getting where I wanted here let me try again.

The ENTP becomes more antisocial as he develops. Period. This is weird. It’s easy, in many ways—it’s one of the easiest things about ENTP development. People tend to want to see 30 year olds slowing down so that is nice. But ironically, it’s the time in life when you should be opening up. People SAY they love ENTPs, but people love watching Gregory House too, nobody actually wants him around in real life. Even you, who just said, “I do.” No you don’t. You want to watch him up close.

So okay ENTP is like, as extroverted as any extrovert. Is the most extroverted personality in some ways. The energy is all moving OUT, all the time. Like Thermodynamics, just moving further and further all the time toward the edge of the universe. And ENTP has a solid noggin, like, as far as sheer output goes, it’s cranking. And this is why ENTP is pretty friendly when your ruin his day by talking to him. Friendly is a social script that gets good results for kids; friendly is a habit that works without any other info, since whatever else was going on in the surroundings, no part of the ENTP was paying attention. No Se was getting sucked in anywhere. When you wake up in the middle of a conversation with someone, friendly feels like a good choice.

So

I think what I am trying to say is that the reason that the ENTP casts a big shadow for some people, or seems like a nonexistent creature, some kind of unicorn, really an interesting thing, something worth watching, etc, is somehow related to all this stuff wrapped together. The appearance of being lost in his head when he’s not really in his head, he’s outside his head and far away. The speed at which the head is humming, which is not unimpressive from just like a basic computations per second level. The friendliness when interrupted leading to the sense that maybe this person is like, normal type human. The ability to pop up from beneath some ocean of thought and be like “Yeah, let me illuminate everything quickly and then , k bye”


sub thought

So like why, how does this work? Well it can really work by helping ENTP understand an enormous amount of stuff. Stuff far outside his normal experience. Case in point: StellarMaze. This is not an ENTP place to be. There is only one reason I am here, and only one reason I have stayed so long: I was trying to understand and save my marriage. I read the internet, I found blake, and I knew within literally a minute of listening to him (first thing that happened was I listened to one of his rambles after I think reading one of this things about ISTJ bring a brick wall or something, It was not the most memorable article but had like, one brilliant line in it which made it so that I knew that he was a thing that mattered relative to all the other things I’d just seen on the internet over the past few months) that he was not just a thing but the main thing. I suspect INFJ finds their way to this site with about 50X as much ease as ENTP. I mean, Astrology is a difficult pill to swallow for the Ne/Si axis. I basically was here in spite of it for a long time and it took me like 18 months to dare recommend the place to anybody else because of how much I hate things that don’t make empirical sense. But the breadth of my travels does pay dividends in this way. With age the ENTP can become increasingly good at honing in on the occasional meaningful thing and doing the work to build a self-sustaining structure for learning something new. I know astrology pretty well now actually. Probably better than 95% of people. And I know MBTI and Socionics better than 99%. And I can actually type in public now, better than I could just a couple months ago. This is valuable stuff I’ve learned and it’s on account of tripping over something while zooming around the universe.


Anyway. I have never thought of myself in terms that are as positive as some of the folks on this forum think of me so I’m trying to find some justification for the perception.

I Think another part of it is the presumption people have of that friendly ENTP has a Fi core. So you’re forgetting basically all the epensiveness of the energy you have to spend on Fi that I just don’t. People do this is real life to me, like, sometimes they think " How do you get so much done." This is only in certain times when I happen to get a couple things done. Had a professor once write a thing about me that said “John gets more done at a higher caliber than any student I’ve ever worked with.” I thought, “sure that makes sense, I get stuff done for her class. I failed the other ones because they were dumb.” There is a definite ability to focus on the stuff that matters when you find it. There is a drifting about when you aren’t sure what action to take or when conflicted. There are all the same balances of strength and weakness I think as in any other personality. Like literally even ENFP. lol.


#4

This is so helpful and adding up wonderfully.


#5

Maybe it will help you get in touch with Ne aux, lunar!

So of course Ni (and navelgazing) is the “lost in head” one. lol Introverted intuition is where the puzzle is figured out inside the head, jostled around to form images and answers. A truth from within. The gestalt and implied lines and feel (Se lean?) of things.

Ne is the puzzle is out there, in the world. Extrovrted. Things and ideas that exist to be jostled and compared, stringing webs and relations until some shape emerges. The pattern and place (Si lean?) of things.

So maybe it’s a bit of “what things are/what is the answer” vs “where things are/where is the answer” when it comes to Ni vs Ne. Though this thought comes up too, maybe Ni is also involved with “why is the answer” while maybe Ne is more involved with “how is the answer”? I will have to thinks aboots this more lol.


#6

like breaking out of the jail that a self can be. feels good. and if Ne dom, guess no need to break out, already free.