but with something they actually care about, they’ll invest a great amount.
for example, one INTJ spends so much money on computer gadgets, but will wear worn out shoes. and sloppy looking clothes.
because to him, the computer gadgets are essential for his gaming.
and another INTJ CEO i know. He’s rich. but he’s not materialistic at all. only what he likes.
he loves wine.
he would buy wines that cost 200-600 dollars. and will regularly drink them. But his car is nothing fancy. just a regular decent car.
and one pair of shoes.
wait… What’s up with INTJ and shoes… My dad only wears one pair of shoes until it rips.
well, those above I mentioned are men. Idk how INTJ women are with shoes.
so yeah, I just wanna understand their idea of money.
it’s weird because they seem stingy about spending money also. But sometimes so generous I don’t know if they know are actually calculating numbers or not.
and, why do INTJ love to study so much, but they like to study things that’s not so practical sometimes?
sometimes I question the usefulness of it.
and why do INTJ love to do research but doesn’t always like to talk about it with people?
I’ve seen a good amount of INTJ talk about their knowledge to people, and I think sometimes the way they talk is not so captivating to the general audience, so they would rather talk to who is actually interested? so they don’t have to waste their energy?
Because… … why should they be? I think INTJ only like things they think are useful or if they just like it (hobby). If they don’t like something, they don’t buy unless they “need”.
Even I barely buy new clothes and I only have one pair of shoes for work, one pair for regular, and maybe one or two type of heels I will wear for dresses? If I didn’t think I needed shoes to match with dresses (or didn’t have to wear any dresses or professional clothes), I wouldn’t have them either. lol I don’t even wear any make up most of the time except for fancy photography occasions (like weddings) because I think “who I got to impress? no one”. Low hassle life! lol
On the other hand, I totally blow too much money buying videogames and computer upgrades and expensive internet that I don’t technically need. I just “like it”.
Whatever we think is our hobby, we research to find the “best quality” that we can afford. There is a bit of min-maxing about it where we try to find the best value. A different INTJ girl I read about made an algorithm to buy rugs online that she likes for the cheapest prices possible lol. Extra effort for things we personally like. Zero effort for everything else! Hahah.
Our general idea of money is that we like money, but we like it because we know it will buy us security (from our enemies? the world? lol) and things that we want to afford. Things INTJ don’t care about, they care VERY LITTLE about and would not spend their “hard earned” dollars on. So they are both frugal/cheap but also very loose when it comes to hobbies.
I for example, am pretty loose with my money, but that’s after I know I have reached my investment goals that I have set for the time frame. I have an excel sheet to keep track! Not completely detailed, but enough to know what I spend on groceries each week, how much I have saved up each month, etc. So chances are, yes, the INTJ is calculating numbers. They know they have a certain amount of “allowance” they will allow themselves to blow on things, and after that is gone, they become stingy again.
For example, I buy a lot of 50% off food and will scrunch my nose if the price for some food is like a dollar or something too high from what I want or expect. I just don’t buy it and would rather eat garbage before the price is good again. On the other hand? I have allowance for crap (toys, pens, junkfood, games, whatever) and I rather spend money on crap than good food. There is some emotional component to this, where INTJ feels a sense of control by being stingy about some areas, while at the same time are satisfied when they can reward themselves with “useless” stuff for working so hard. lol Many INTJ wouldn’t call it useless though. They probably justify it as intellectually stimulating hobby or necessity to their success.
It is Ti-id! I read things that even I know is useless and makes me annoyed because I can’t help it! lol Absorb the information! There is also a certain aspect of INTJ that believe knowledge = power, and power = protection. You know how I talk about INTJ and survivalist aspirations or living in bunkers? It’s kind of like that. INTJ want to feel like they are prepared for anything, and having expansive knowledge is one way to feel that way. Can never be too prepared…
Even if I know certain things about investing and figure my plan is solid enough that I don’t have to research anymore, just looking at more research to reinforce my sense of security in my knowledge is satisfying. I think everyone likes to feel validated for what they know or believe, but INTJ hold a lot of their esteem in that, so they are even more into knowing things inside out so they aren’t wrong. And if they are wrong, they try to figure out why so they aren’t embarrassed again.
In one sense, it’s because INTJ are secretive. If knowledge is power, then sharing knowledge = sharing power, and they don’t want to be taken advantage of.
But also, yeah, INTJ are often very dry when they disseminate information. INTJ often absorb and think about information in a nonlinear way (Ni), which is harder to explain to most people. They don’t want to have to explain and then it not making sense to the person and having to “dumb down” their knowledge and have the person misinterpreting them. This is why when INTJ feel like the “debate” with a person is useless, they might just end it instead of continuing an argument. If someone doesn’t “get it” the first time, they don’t have the energy to explain ti the second time. lol Fe got all used up the first time around! They weren’t there to put on a show in the first place. “You asked me to share my precious knowledge but you got bored or got lost (because you’re dumb)? Well, screw you! Don’t bother asking next time then! Don’t waste my time!” <= arrogance, but also cranky because lost all their energy and maybe they feel bad for not being competent at Fe-ing lol
Evidence. Hard evidence. Numbers. Peer-reviewed research.
that’s freaking hilarious.
INTJ and shoes. wow… very consistent XD
but how do you explain the materialism with functions? that’s what i’m curious about.
because INFJs can be materialistic. Ni user? Se inferior? probably have not much to do with INTJ’s view on material.
i can convince INFJs to buy something they don’t need. it’s probably too easy sometimes.
but INTJ, they are so stubborn!!! in a good way though.
they definitely don’t waste money on something THEY don’t ‘need’
i would never eat junk to save money. my Se dom appreciates quality food. it is one of the most important things in life!
i’ve seen INTJ who truly appreciates quality food. but they can eat junk like it’s no problem.
i don’t get that…
it’s the same with money. it seems paradoxical to me hahaha
In one sense, it’s because INTJ are secretive. If knowledge is power, then sharing knowledge = sharing power, and they don’t want to be taken advantage of.
AGHHADFHAIORHRHH!!! i knew it!!!
FUKKK I KNNEW IT!!!
sigh… that explains a whole lot.
there’s this INTJ woman who is busy raising kids, so i guess she doesn’t have time to do research or study.
i was talking to her husband about my recent studies and research i’ve been doing.
and she seemed bitter about it.
and she even suggest that i shouldn’t spend too much time reading random things.
ohhhh. this makes sense now. she probably didn’t want me to ‘excel’ her so she was trying to hold me back from gaining ‘power/knowledge’!!!
because for the longest time i’m like ‘what the hell is wrong with her? why would she suggest that i should slow down on my research? dafuk??’
she’s in her late 20’s. maybe that’s why?
i mean, i could be wrong. maybe she’s not an INTJ, but she’s the one who told me she is INTJ.
me: so, you think you’re better than everyone?
her: who doesn’t think that?
INFJ have Fe. They kinda understand why some kind of “image” is needed to be maintained. Also they probably are more open to humouring you. lol. “supernocturnal will be very happy he convinced me to buy this, so I guess I will! (also to shut him up)”
INTJ have Se inferior. So it depends what they pick out as the things they should spend on. Like maybe one or two groups of things INTJ picks out as “special”. lol You know those complete foods made by tech companies or diet companies? Like Soylent? I bet a lot of INTJ are into that!
But I love food! In general! I am just also… cheap.
Inferior Se also means questionable decisions around diet, physical activity, comforts, etc. They say INTJ tend to stress eat, or have stress sex, or turn to drugs/alcohol when out of control or cuts everything out alrogether. Lots of weird indulgences or asceticism when it comes to life’s sensual pleasures!
It depends if it’s the same subject as she should be studying!
One could be competition… or she might seriously think it’s useless because she thinks you are going off Ni or Ti deep end. lol
This is also why INTJ and INTP sometimes fight when it comes to Ti. INTP go into research A LOT more and can get very, very pedantic and specific, and it drives the INTJ nuts because they can’t keep up (since it’s an id for INTJ, it wastes a ton of energy or is emotionally/mentally frustrating), or they have had their own useless adventures and realized how much time they wasted. INTJ can be like “okay okay okay, there’s a LOT of Ti, but WHERE is the Te to make any of it matter?!”
Yes. Immature INTJ tend to use very scorpio Fi to back themselves up when it comes down to using emotions at all because they… are just not used to Fe. This means the come off biting or caustic. And they enjoy it a lot of the time because they see someone’s discomfort as a power play/win. Kind of like “I know I’m right because I made them flustered!” or “Hah! I’m stronger than this weakling!”. ENTJ are even worse I think, but since they project Ni aux, they probably come off a bit more knowing or justified. lol
Some INTJ will stay caustic forever because they are so competent in whatever field, they get away with it because they are needed. And they also have money. lol Money buys protection for their horrible personality.
This girl sounds a bit foolish though, so she might actually be a bit jealous of how excited you get to be into your researches… I think some INTJ take a pretty long time to mature. Maybe they realize some things only after kids or getting into their 50s. Like I said, INTJ really do need to learn that not everyone thinks like they do or use logic the same way without one or the other being inferior or “just dumb”.
Hahah yeah, whatever an INTJ is “into” or is their hobby, they make extra room to splurge on while forgetting the rest of life. So your husband’s into suits and he likes that particular image of himself, therefore $$$$. INTJ Fi is like self-involved esteem that doesn’t require others to validate normally. A scorpio Fi. I think they get into bad places when they go into too much pisces Fi where they care about opinions of others or think of themselves in service to others. It tends to be esteem crushing and immobilizing.
It depends on what “vacation” means to the INTJ. Most INTJ, when they want a “break” it just means to be by themselves to work on personal projects or improve themselves/inform themselves by researching. That is often their idea of “fun”. This means: why waste money to go somewhere else and do nothing productive when I can be at home doing exactly what I want!
Beaches and amusement parks usually don’t serve a good “purpose” for INTJs. They have to be convinced that the experience is worth something. For example, I like going on rollercoasters once in a while so I can experience zero-gravity. This helps lucid dreaming adventures! Value! Enjoyments that are “invested” into future at-home enjoyments!
Crowds are annoying yes, and some INTJ may not think it’s worth it for a tiny thrill that won’t be added value to them that can be used in some way.
Interacting with people usually drains INTJs, yes! Because introversion! They usually have more energy talking to other introverts because there isn’t the same “demand” of social exchange. Plus, interacting with average people is hard because INTJ usually know they have to adjust their verbal language and body language to be understandable and not-rude… but INTJs have bad Fe, so it takes much energy! Why even bother sometimes! Might as well not interact at all! lol
INTJ have inferior Se, so while they think sensory stuff can be cool (like high Se martial arts, visual arts, etc), sensors tend to give off a lot of information, both social and physical cues, at a rapid pace --or TOO SLOW a pace (Si)-- and usually expect an equal pace response. INTJ easily get overloaded with that kind of information sometimes because they don’t have good “Fe reception” to capture it all and process efficiently. This means they have to go through longer loops of their inferior Se, maybe Fi, some Te, overall Ni–just has to use the full system in a way they are not optimized for. They can FEEL that they are inefficient at it. And you know how INTJ like to be efficient and competent… Well, it’s really annoying to them feeling like they can’t be around sensor types due to inefficiency.
Sometimes this is projected onto the sensor like “this sensor is an annoying person!!” but usually it’s just the INTJ being annoyed in general because they are being overwhelmed (or bored lol).
At least that’s how I think it works for me!
I am okay with sensor types in small doses or if we’re doing something I also have shared interest in because that is the exact area I have conserved my energy for, but if it’s out of my scope (and not in my interest), the inefficiency and boredom really aggravates me in a short amount of time. When INTJ are annoyed, they very clearly show it because they don’t have that much Fe energy to “mask” it well and be “nice” about it.
Well if we could use “shoes” as an indicator, I seem to be an INTJ. Haha, they should add this to test questions
Mostly I just don’t notice anybody’s footwear and expect the same from others (but have realised to be not true).
Owning excessive “things” beyond need makes me feel burdened…
Erm, but, I am a musician/singer and I own many musical instruments (not that I am proficient in all) and softwares for music production etc. and have spent money on taking lessons etc… so, yea I can be erratic.
I used to be with food how Prax is, but I have learnt due to various reasons that that is not an area to be stingy with!
Hmm yea, I can be quite penny wise, pound foolish haha.
Unlike Prax though, I don’t calculate/track in detail. I did briefly for a couple of months when I lived abroad, but it’s not something I could keep up consistently.
I am not very savvy with money, but “overall” it balances out.
I don’t know if the ‘not so practical’ part is true. I do like to study… but often have an inclination towards things that have an application to it. Like, I was good at math, but by itself I don’t have an inclination for it.
But sometimes I do get into phases of information overload, usually wanting to be prepared for every scenario or something. I’ve also had a recent stressful phase of reading up symptoms, causes, cure for various diseases… (with the possibility that I have them or will get them). It was unpleasant.
I don’t have a specific intent to not talk about it or hold back information (assuming a general situation, where the other person has no reason to have researched or studied that topic). But, unless I am prepared I cannot be coherent in explaining it. or I assume it won’t be interesting to the other person. Unless I get some indication that the other person is interested, I usually don’t volunteer.
On a slightly related note, I was/am also bad at “class participation” type stuff.
Intj musician? Nice. Intj art is so polished, layered, and intriguing. (Have you seen Prax’s work within this forum.) Is it just a hobby to you, or are you working towards something professionaly? Can you elaborate on what it is you do musically…compose?, engineering?, studio work?, perform?, genre, etc…?
I am working toward something professionally, at least trying to haha
I mainly compose/perform.
I trained western classical music formally (degree… main instrument voice, and composing… ).
and I am trained in Indian classical and perform that…
Some of my compositions are a reflection of this weird background/vocal ability. I mean, I guess it is not that weird- Western Classical composers have often turned to Indian musical sounds/theories to use…
I used to like composing for voice and other acoustic instruments. But currently exploring electronic music, as I came across a cool software synth and rather like it.
But, overall, I do not yet know “my place” musically…
And no, I haven’t yet explored Prax’s (or anyone’s) artwork here…
Hmm, yes, while I do multi tracked vocalizations, that is not what I am referring to, though that can be one of the methods.
I am referring to the approach, which is largely modal in nature (Indian Ragams or Ragas). I often use how the ragas move (either phrases or the oscillations between notes), or combinations of those notes, rather than focussing on harmonic progressions, though that does come into play.
And voice stuff. I don’t know if you have heard much Indian classical music, but it sounds quite different from Western classical or any western music for that matter.
And that is a thing about voice isn’t it- for most people, any vocal sound that is too different from what they are used to, sounds annoying or ugly. It is much easier to like… or perhaps ignore… instrumental music from a different culture. But, I digress.
Ha maybe! well I do feel more relaxed composing in this…it’s like I can forget the knowledge I possess (which feels like a burden sometimes) and look at it as a whole.
I do listen… More Hindustani than Carnatic… I guess its natural for someone with Fi id to get drawn to Hindustani… Carnatic always overwhelms me with technicality… Easier for someone with stronger Te/Ti to enjoy? I can’t claim much technical know how though… My ear isn’t capable of distinguishing sounds at all… can’t identify by ear… I just absorb vibes… Like yaman gets me in touch with my inner soul, durga makes me introspective and miyan ki malhar makes me melancholic…
Cool. You said “weird vocal ability” I guess I assumed you would be able to understand that I had a basic understanding of Indian classical (infj problems of assuming lol). I thought you meant you were doing something new/progressive/experimental with your music. I have not heard of those types of Indian music, but I googled after you mentioned it and now have a good idea. I am a musician myself and I enjoy exploring different sounds.
This is more true within western cultures’ civil war of multi musical genres. People get passionate with thier distaste for genres that are not of their personal preference. But I am an NF artist at heart and can’t help but look beyond genre or cultural expression when I listen to music.