I guess this is my first post here. I’m basically addicted to the insights on this site, first of all the blog and then the many really insightful people and posts here. It’s just great reading all that stuff. (Prax I’m a hidden secret fan of your insights (until now I guess (how deep are you allowed to layer these anyways))) I hope it’s OK to start out the door with my own (wall of text) thread, fingers crossed XD, as I’ve been lurking and found that this is an integrated community with a good community spirit (or however it’s called) : ).
So this post is about music and trying to relate properties of the music to the cognitive functions. Because: I think music is the most direct expression of a person! (and supposedly (supposed by me) their cognition)
I’m just going to give this a go, and probably if you read this you will disagree with a bunch of the stuff I wrote but I would love to hear your thoughts on this to get further.
Of course I shall start with my own type since I’m a self centered Fi dom and have no clue (eg Se)
Ne (valued) in music:
There are short clusters of notes that form a mini-pattern. They keep repeating, yet continuously changing and refreshing themselves, so they are recognizable but still sound new. There’s no accents on the individual notes. The pattern that repeats can be formed by a variable number of notes; No single note is essential to the pattern, and various notes may be added and omitted as the pattern repeats (as opposed to music that’s heavy in Se)
Si (valued) in music:
The individual notes flow and blur together into one sensory flow, rather than having spikes of energy as with Se music. Conscious control of sensory harmony. There may be intentional play with harmony and disharmony to convey something, like an emotion or event in a movie.
The music represents emotion (duh). It’s hard to describe, but more specifically, playful patterns quickly alternating with very serious sounding parts may be indicative of Fi/Ne as far as I can tell. The emotions in music go further than e.g. the standard hollywood ‘epic or shit is about to happen’ or ‘shit is hitting the fan BAAAAArgrghr BAAArgr BAAArgrgr’ movie soundtracks, but they can convey a better sense of wonder, beauty, sadness, optimism, determination, anxiety, being overwhelmed… basically more fine grained emotions that can alternate within one piece.
Te (valued inferior/transcedental)
I don’t know!
Se POLR/weak spot:
Music may seem inconcrete, ungrounded, hard to follow/grasp and lack ‘punch’. There is no clear climax or goal that we’re working towards. The climaxes that are there seem random and might abrubtly transition into something else (and leave the Se valuers… unsatisfied : P)
Well good luck relating this to music but I’m going to try. Although at first glance the Ne patterns are clear enough to catch onto and not immensely complex by any means, but when listening for a while, there’s more to them than meets the eye (ear?). Combined you might see that the Ne patterns combine into something more complex, circling around a fuzzy Ni essence. This makes the music somehow complex, but what’s going on is too fuzzy to put a finger on it. Can’t really easily catch the intuitive structure of the music even though it’s clearly not random Ne patterns (…?) If i have to take a shot in the dark, it’s kind of like Si (id) in that it gives an intuitive version of the sense of being engorged in a big process that just keeps going and going and going and going and… the Ne patterns refresh and refresh, but the patterns themselves convey… repetition. Like it’s giving you the direct experience of how everything is always the same thing happening over and over, but nonetheless its beautiful and fresh every time. (If i’m falling back to the Id, sometimes i feel like its pointless because i already know what’s going to happen and it’s pointless to go through the motions. But through the motions I shall go and when I do it usually turns out that its beautiful! (ne) and I think a similar thing can be said for Si id with Se aux … but that’s besides the point). Ok, now looking back at what I wrote about Ni id I think that this may really just be me projecting things onto music that aren’t there?
Example of INFP music:
Si (id) in music:
Lots of repeating of the same exact pattern, which remains unchanged and not refreshed (Ne polr) but the pattern is beautifully executed and explored in detail. The music is a sensory experience that pulls you in and lets you experience it quite viscerally. Think ‘soundscape’.
There’s force to the instruments (duh) There are spikes of energy. A heavy beat would be an obvious example to explain this concept, but most music has a beat so it’s not a great criterion to determine how strong the Se component in the music is. Instead, try to get a ‘sense’ for regular buildups to …—!!!–… spikes of energy! pa da da da BAM! : P
Se is not about combining sensory elements that ‘belong’ together (as determined by many past experiences) (that’s Si): Se pictures are stimulating and colorful yet they’re just kind of sensorily incoherent. The same goes for Se music, but combined with the Si id, somehow these elements, without the sensory integration being clear or classic (like proven combinations of instrumens / proven instrumental styles) still are beautiful combinations of Se.
The repeating patterns don’t get refreshed but they do circle around something. There’s a kind of structure to the music. It’s abstractly integrated.
I’m not sure. There’s logical structure. It’s not anal (like maybe Te id). It just makes sense. There’s a progression. Now we’re listening to this pattern repeat. now this pattern. now there’s a climax. the segmentation of the parts in the track is clear.
Example of ISTP music:
Example of ISFP music:
Weak Fi: Emotional intensity is over the top so that it sounds faux. Forced hollywood kind of emotion. Even so it manages to pull me in if i get over that, because the music is beautiful, and somehow, there is still an essential, playful kind of authenticity to the music.
Inferior/Transcedental Si: The sensory harmony is minimalist but somehow beautiful (especially on hi fi audio)
Ne: Patterns like with the INFP music, but they’re on the foreground now, the music is entirely built around the patterns
Te id: The patterns are kind executed with a certain ‘order’, like some anal perfectionist had an itch to fit everything together in a certain logical fashion, which in turn kills some of the spirit (emotional content) of the music.
Fe: Well the singing and patterns are beautiful, I can really feel the Fe but I don’t know where its coming from in the music. Maybe the ‘slickness’ of the specific Ne pattern that was used.
I’m going to talk about this specific example I think is INFJ music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjq3hVcuH90
NI (valued dom)
There is a big empty ‘zen’ like abstract space (the lyrics are literally about dreaming) And the music gives a sence of this big Ni space with the soft zany voices echoing in the background and the voilins flowing under this tight minimalist beat.
Se (Valued inferior/transcedental):
The music has punch but it’s minimalist sensing. Somehow it perfectly conveys this Ni space.
The lyrics talk about concrete things and put out force, directing you, the listener, to do things and giving you facts (Se): YOU GOT TO GO. KEEP HOLD OF ALL THAT YOU ARE. MOVE YOUR FEET. YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE SKY BELONGS TO NO ONE. The concrete terms (Se) are really symbols for Ni concepts.
Fe (valued creative):
There is an inspirational factor to the lyrics and the sound of the music. I recognize the fe in just the mmmmmmmmmm follow your dreams ~
~ it’s trying to influence you and put you in that mood of just going after your dreams! BTW, this artist literally released an album called group therapy.
Fi (unvalued id)
Well it’s idealistic! Very much so! But no where overtly. It’s packaged as instructions for the listener(Se) and facts (se) and ideas (Ni) —> (the sky belongs to no one)