Relationships - Love - Sex


#367

ENFJ have gas to run on forever if they want probably (or perhaps run into high stress nervous breakdown territory, but that may be more from fighting for an “impossible cause” type of issues).
Apparently, ~14% of all women are ISFJ, so it’s likely that those stats about women are more about how ISFJ handle menopause and the like.

ISFP are artist-y types and I think sometimes outsider types. So I guess all the places you’d look for poetic INFJ men is good (infj men are rarer, so even if you ran into what you think is an infj man, it’s probably isfp man)? So go to art shows and gritty/grungy indie concerts. Lots of craftsmen and loner types. I guess they are like ISTP, but moody and hard romantics. I feel like ENFJ are attractive to ISFP because you come off as glittery aura and almost above the grime to them, so you just need to be in the scene to pull interest. :stuck_out_tongue: Hook up with and use everyone, they won’t mind (too much, it will help fuel that angsty art? hahah).

If you read online descriptions about ISFP, they might seem super boring dainty creatures to you, but I think a lot of them have a great deal of edge and angst they need to vent and need a “cause” or “catalyst” for that. They are a lot like INFJ except less rational, but that means you can easily set them back to neutral through sheer force of will or skillful assurances.

INFJ uh… seems like they can really just mentally and physically check out in the least sexy/burn bridge way possible?? hahaha Maybe they see ENFJ Fe as shallow, especially when they are angry, and get even angrier about it (they use it as a “tool” in aux after all, so they probably think ENFJ are being similarly hypocritical/manipulative about using it. It’s a weird dynamic). ISFP are not as incensed about those things since it’s not in their immediate radar, and I think ISFP actually enjoy skillful Fe use on them.


#368

Everytime I see the word hard I wonder if I know what it really means lol.


#369

To me it means stubborn and a bit violent. Will conflict with others and fight about it! haha
There’s an aggressive undertone to it where they sometimes hope it hurts someone (either themselves or the other person).
Piercing.

Soft to me, means more of a compromise, there can be a determination that can be strong and unyielding, but not a hope that someone is hurt by it. If someone is hurt, there is pullback or trying to console.
Effusive.


#370

Thank you. Good description. I think it is under Se in my head.


#371

I love how INTJs can take my word vomits and express the gist so concisely in a few sentences…


#372

Interesting thoughts about ISFP. I associate Te and Fi functions (in id position mostly though, but perhaps as dominant?) as being ones that want ownership or possession of another person. You really need that to have someone willing to invest the enormous amount of time, attention and effort in a person that Erika’s fantasy involves.

I think a balanced INTJ could be a really good choice for this, especially since they tend to be amoral when it comes to judging others and it wouldn’t turn into “You are mine so I’m going to destroy your marriage and tell everyone what you are doing and put pictures on the internet” type of vicious revenge an ISFP might do. However, with Se so low in the stack, she might burn them out…not sure.

Erika, you really need to go out and try a few people and then come back and tell us all about it :). Best forum entertainment ever…


#373

All while trying to be a good human being!?!?! I’m wild and crazy, but I would like to find ONE to be wild and crazy with. It feels more like home that way, more grounded. And when I say wild and crazy, I mean that more in comparison to a coyote and not a drugged up hooker. haha.

I like your thinking about INTJ. I suppose it would depend on the INTJ though, other factors. Like, @Prax is cool. I could see dating her, but I don’t know if she would be “fun” enough. I can see us having problems with like, doing impulsive fun things. Impulsive being the key word. But I think she’s into some freaky sex stuff, so we’d definitely have fun there. Tentacle dildos and stuff. Oh, another problem we’d have would be when I’m hormonal. I get all irrational and emotional and I could see her saying, “Yeah, tentacle sex was cool, but you are driving me literally insane, goodbye.” haha.


#374

@Impossibletobe
Oh yeah, I think ISFP are especially a kind of possessive type. At least the few that I know. They have a passive-aggressive possessive-obsessive bent to them, especially if they are scorpios on top of it! I have heard from an INFJ friend who works with and knows a few ISFP that they make very loyal and willing "left-hand-man"s so-to-speak for ENFJ types.

@Ankh
I think a lot of INTJ would enjoy trying that out to test their mettle! They generally like the idea of having power and control over people and situations, but I think they would run out of emotional “juice” after a while and need to recharge in isolation. If you are okay with cold periods of days without conversing or attention, then maybe it would work out! Kind of a friends with benefits thing going on~

I had a bad habit of not responding to texts or picking up phonecalls OR returning phonecalls for days from my husband while we were still dating. All because I didn’t feel like talking or maybe I didn’t think the text was important. If he was gonna go nuts about it and get clingy, I would have likely dumped him (but I think since he is INFP, he just took it as innocent "oh, maybe she busy… i… will try again later!!! :open_mouth: ").

I am also like… 75% purely intellectual about sex. I like “thinking” or playing around with the “idea” more than doing. Hahaha… I will watch or read things and discuss them, but the physical action seems like a big hurdle. Se-inferior problems! I think supernocturnal was accurate in saying that’s how many INTJs are (intellectualizing sex), especially the guys, which is why many may get trapped into a porn addiction where they can be an observer rather than deal with “real” people.

I think many INTJ, if they allow for impulsivity in their lives, are more likely to “schedule it in”… which… defeats the whole purpose??? :stuck_out_tongue: Too much chaos causes Se-inferior stress, I guess, because their reaction times are pretty handicapped. I am perhaps a more chaotic version because of questionable executive function, but I am still pretty boring when it come to doing versus “talkinsgs”.

GIVE US ERIKA REPORTS ON THE CLUB/ART SCENE.


#376

@Ankh

“Yeah, I’m a flirt, but I am also an intuitive which means I need a connection”

I saw an enfj today and thought of you and exactly what you just wrote:) Really sexual yet an NF:)


#377

When I see an isfp I always think I would have to be in a close relationship with them to begin to have a clue of their inner world. They seem so mysterious to me and inaccessible. I have heard people say this about infp but with isfp, to me, there is a lot more of “unspoken mystery”. Especially in the eyes.


#378

I don’t know. They might look that way, but I don’t think there is much going on inside.

Maybe that’s why they are so charming?


#379

@Ankh,

If I was a guy, I would sooooo be into you. But, yeah, the hot/cold thing might be a problem. I function too much like you, but in a toned down way. I love intensely and then retreat and then need inspirational feeling from others (such as flirting with someone else) to be into you again–the nice thing about ENTP (or any type that only can really love themselves) is that half the time, they don’t care if I’ve zoned out during the gazillion and one times they want sex. They just want me to look sexy, to inspire them, but I can just lie there 50% of the time and be in my own world, and they still get off because its all about them (in contrast to NFs or INTJs who want me to be there, with them, in the moment since they are going through all that effort to be physical). And weirdly, this dynamic works for me as long as I don’t want crazy deep connection stuff.

And I’m not sure INFJs are as squeamish about sexual stuff as INTJs are. Ti vs. Fi in the 3rd position makes you a lot more open-minded–I don’t know a ton about other INFJs sex life though.


#380

I adore ISFPs, but from afar. I went on a beach trip with several other families, and one of the women is an ISFP. She woke up really early, right before sunrise and took all the kids down to the beach to watch the sunrise and collect shells. She expresses Se exactly how I want to express Se.

But there are no deep conversations. She is just someone I would love to do stuff with. But I don’t like the way she functions or operates in life or the way her relationships are maintained. So they are like candy for me.


#381

Sup, gurl.


#382

I am always fascinated how different isfps are to infps. Same dominant function yet so much difference.


#383

@Ankh

Hahah yeah. I think that’s one of the things INTJs are better at than INFJ when it comes to interpersonal “contracts”: setting expectations at a sustainable level. I think INFJ tend to come off “all in” and seem to be sensitive and caring, etc., so when they get cold on a person because they too need isolation time, it comes off really hurtful, like a deep betrayal of all their earlier angelic implied promises (they may not have ‘promised’ literally, but I bet they sometimes can make a person feel like the only person who matters in the universe, so if a person is kicked from that paradise, it’s really awful).

Thank you! A honor to be graced by your sexy thoughts! Hahhaa!
Yeah, “unplanned hindrances” like that are demotivating or inertia-inducing. It’s like bad Se with even worse Si. I already don’t like chores… now I might have to wash hands after extra carefully? Take another shower? SIGHS.
So when I do engage, it’s in limited bursts. No energy to keep up on a sustained regular basis hahaha.

NOT GUTS, NO GLORY, ERIKA!
You are supposed to go out there and FORCE SOME CONNECTIONS hahaha. I wouldn’t worry too much about being a “good human being” as long as you’re being true to yourself and honest about expressing what you want in that moment. "I am looking to make connections, but maybe a heart or two will be broken because I like playing a little rough. :wink: <3 " and let the ISFP be drawn like moths to a flame. hahaha! (I am not sure this particular technique would work though. I think ISFP are more the type to be attracted to good looks and bedroom eyes first and foremost lol).

@lunar
Like @puck and @impossibletobe imply, ISFP often seem mysterious or give off a really inaccessible vibe, but that’s part of their mystique. Once you get inside, there’s… not too much going on except maybe emotional tempests (like deep grudges, resentments, obsessions, etc. lol). I mean, it’s not necessarily complicated, but it’s still a furnace or maelstrom in there!
And yeah, I think that’s part of their charm. They can be pure desire with a veneer of coolness or danger to them afforded by Se aux. Ni tertiary when developed gives them more emotional depth and expands their creative thinking, but it’s kind of dicey when it comes to more intellectually abstract and convoluted stuff.

@Impossibletobe
The difference my lay in INFJ having Capricorn Se vs INTJ Virgo Se? :thinking: Maybe it makes INFJ more prone to going all out and getting killed or consumed (lol fatalistic!), while it makes INTJ more prone to fussiness/anal retentiveness hahaha!


#384

Also, I was discussing this stuff with my friend, and she had an interesting write up! Of course, she then told me not to copy-paste directly because we talk to each other liek dumb babies, so she rewrote it to be more presentable:

On ENFJ women:

From what I’ve seen, ENFJ women are okay IN THEORY with the idea of being a sort of caretaker for some beautiful, poetic, freewheeling, shiftless INFJ man, but when they have to deal with it in reality, they end up being kind of like. “Oh…I actually don’t think…having to baby this man…is fun or hot after all…”

Cue awkward breakup.

On INFJ vs other INFJ:

INFJs end up hurting each other easily and possibly often. I think it’s because all INFJs have a very simple, raw, babyish aspect (usually carefully hidden) to their core personality, and that part is very tender and very imbecile. And they KNOW it’s imbecile so they’re super touchy about it.

At the same time, a lot of INFJs can’t help but want to poke and tease a bit at other people’s vulnerabilities, which they’re good at sniffing out. So, an INFJ will be poking at another one, thinking they’re just messing around and it’s all in good fun, but to the other INFJ, it is NOT in good fun at ALL and they get very hurt and/or angry.

The only saving grace in such a relationship would be the fact that INFJs are generally good about apologizing if they realize they’re wrong and are usually quick to accept other people’s apologies…IF they feel the person understands what they did wrong and is sincere.

If they think you’re apologizing just as a gesture, or because you want to repair the relationship but that you don’t actually understand WHY they were upset or that you don’t care what they were upset about, they most likely won’t forgive.

On ENFJs with ISFPs.

ISFP men, except the ones who are mega losers, often have a lot of “cool” factor INFJs don’t have because they lack Ni-Ti dithering and also have an Se auxiliary, so they can be very cool and sexy on a more consistent basis. They’re not very complex or deep mentally, but they’re very deep emotionally. Maybe the deepest of all the types. I would say they are indeed the “dumbest type” as a shorthand, but to be more precise, they’re a simply a type for whom logic is a very low priority

They’re emotionally deep but mentally shallow. I think the mental shallowness generally won’t matter too much to an ENFJ (they may not even notice as long as the ISFP isn’t the far side of the doofus spectrum). Because the ENFJ can kind of extrapolate for themselves interestingness and fascination from what the ISFP says and does.

Plus their feelings are a lot more easily swayed by simple expressions of appreciation and validation. They really soak up ENFJ’s use of Fe. INFJs will kind of…unsexily clamber off to their precious alone time a lot and aren’t nearly as impressed or placated by ENFJ Fe (because a lot of the time an ENFJ will just say whatever, just because they know it’s what the other person wants to hear, and this can get tiring or even annoying to an INFJ after a while. ISFPs usually won’t notice this). Also, even though they usually won’t, INFJs can argue well with ENFJs, and this will piss the ENFJ off. Not like a sexy pissing off, where there are explosions and drama and the kind of thing that could lead to fun and hot make up sex. It would just be just annoying and demoralizing pissing off. INFJs are at their cores pretty negative people, and ENFJs can’t actually deal with negativity, especially if directed at their hopes or dreams or visions. It really annoys them.

ISFPs don’t really argue. Or if they do it’ll be in a way an ENFJ can squelch easily. And ENFJs are well-equipped to assuage an ISFP’s feelings. Like, ISFPs tend not to care if an issue is actually resolved or not, as long as you validate their feelings.

If an issue an INFJ is having with someone hasn’t been resolved, they will see attempts to “validate their feelings” as condescending, and very few things piss off INFJs more than feeling condescended to.

Obviously bear in mind that these are all generalities. But, MBTI in itself is a system of generalization, so whatevs.


#385

Wow, your friend really knocked the ball out of the park on those interrelationship descriptions between INFJ, ENFJ, and ISFP. Very well done.


#387

Jesus, this thread exploded and I lost track.

I think I’ll jump into the thread and share my experience whether or not people care.

OK, so I’m in my early 20s and I didn’t really give myself a chance to date others. Let’s see, in regards to sex. I think I’m like a nympho. I would never initiate a single thing but I felt like the most dirty, perverted little girl walking on earth…For a while I had such a painful, aching desire to fuck, and the pain would only amplify in times of sadness/despair…as if this wretched, evil baby was screaming inside my soul to engage in sex so intense, so rough, so animalistic that I’d forget everything. raises eyebrows

Well, I got my sex in the end. :slight_smile: With my current SO (INFP with Mercury in the 1st house and sun in Fe Pisces with a heavy emphasis, ascendant + T-stellium, in Capricorn…so a bit ENFPish with the face of an ISFP. Swoon!). Amazing how my depression has vastly improved after that…And oh yes, both of us like it rough. Blake was right about us INFJs…

But oh boy, he really hit home with the fickle nature of INFJ women in love. I love the chase, but the passion quickly fizzles out once the actual relationship begins. I take care of my SO and help him to the very end, but I know there is another side of me watching everything with a clinical eye. Sometimes, I just want to leave (not that I would, actually). I want freedom. And I’m greedy…I have a very bad side in me that wants to win…fantasies of glory…I’ll do anything, absolutely everything it takes to make sure I get what I want…this means killing my love, throwing him aside, at least temporarily, before coming back with full open arms.

And funny thing about sex. I love the idea of sex, the idea of submission, and the beauty of it all, but I feel lost when I engage in the act myself…Apparently I’m good…my expressions, my sounds, oh yes, I’m vocal…but at the same time, I can’t shut off my brain constantly strategizing and intellectualizing the act. In some ways, I’m not sure if I really want it, but I’ll just watch what is happening to me like a cat…It’s weird, this “I want it, but I don’t” thing that I have. And I just don’t know what to do…It’s either I become sexless and cold so I can take-over-the-world or something like that, or I give into my sexual nature and let myself be defiled like the way I’ve always wanted. Yin and yang. Never in between. I lack balance…I know I said this many times. Meanwhile, my INFP (or ENFP?) wants to make a movement towards balance but is at a loss. I predict some practical issues with this over time, but for now, I think both of us “need” each other for the time being.


#388

“For a while I had such a painful, aching desire to fuck, and the pain would only amplify in times of sadness/despair…as if this wretched, evil baby is screaming inside my soul to engage in sex so intense, so rough, so animalistic that I’d forget everything. raises eyebrow”

Younger, this didn’t happen to me. Happens to me now that I am older. Apparently you can’t meet all your needs through your SO.

I am so unfair about it too because it isn’t even like I could do this to someone else. So little Se. But please someone come do this to me. :frowning: yet fair because I have no expectations whatsoever from my So so I don’t resent him

Rough intense make me forget. It is like if it is rough but I don’t forget I don’t like that either. In fact then I am not into rough…like if it is rough but the feelings side gets in the way good or bad feelings then I am not into it.

Wow. Only on Stellarmaze would I voice any of this.