Seeing Auxillary Ti


#1

Inspired by @Prax’s mention of Ti id and a sense of Overwhelming Wrongness, in this thread:

I was thinking about Ti Aux in ENTP, i.e. I was thinking about myself.

Johnonymous was thinking about himself? I am

  • shocked
  • not shocked

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@blake, you claimed that the aux function is visible. You can see people doing it. I wonder sometimes how much the prototypical Aux Function in your mind is Fe, because of the fact that you’ve done so much thinking about INFJs. Do you construct a theory like this by extrapolating from observation of INFJ most of all? Do you see this visibility as being the same for dom Extroverts? Do you See ENFJ doing Ni or doing Fe? ENTP doing Ti or doing Ne?

I wonder if it’s possible that For introverts, the aux function is most visible because it’s the most preferred extroverted function, but for extorverts, the dom function is the most visible.

Okay, on the other hand, I actually set out in this post to support your claim because I am optimistic that your theory might be right. I like it. I like the idea of Ti being very visible in my persona. I’m just not sure it’s true. And I should say, I’m not certain the forum is the best way to judge that as I do myself a lot different in print than in person, or at least, I appear a lot different. I think Ne is louder in print and I think in person, if you didn’t know better, it wouldn’t be quite as clear what I’m doing when I’m doing Ne. But it’s still visible. Some would just think I’m making something up, trying to entertain, acting, or on drugs.

Meanwhile, in person, I think Ti is pretty visible for me in this way:

When something falls out of its own logical pattern, I move my head to the side, look down, up, or in some other way abandon my physical stance. Like it breaks any apparent stillness in me. Like when the thing happens its my cue to abandon my observation of the thing and start thinking myself. It’s not super subtle. I like Fishing metaphors for some reason: It’s about like the feeling of having a fish hit your line if you have the line wrapped around your finger. That’s what happens for me when someone says something out of sync with the logic of what they have been saying. It’s like a small, undeniable jerking sensation that I can’t not respond to. Imagine fishing and being like, I’m going to sit here all chill reading a book on my phone while my other hand is holding this fishing rod with the line wrapped through my fingers, and then, fffwwwt, the sensation of sudden tightening on the fingers: it’s difficult to read the rest of the sentence I was on, and hard not to make physical motion signaling a change.

So people who know me, like my wife, know immediately when I disagree even when I don’t want them to. I may as well be throwing a flag in the air: false. If my feedback is desired or not actively undesired I’ll interrupt immediately to understand what I’m missing. I know I’m missing something: I’m missing the specific reason they are making an error in their thinking. This sounds like “Wait, hangon, so why does that part matter?” or “Let me make sure I understand: You did x, y, z, and your goal is A, and now you are concerned about b, and help me understand why.

It’s a similar sensation to the one I have when doing strategic assessment of business stuff. Like, finally, today, I figured out the problem with Lyft, but I’ve known it everytime they send me a warm, friendly correspondence. The problem with Lyft is they are in the exact market space as uber, subject to the same margin challenges, and yet they are pretending that treating drivers extra friendly is a revenue driver. It’s not. They are misaligned between marketing and revenue, and in the short term that’s fine, but in the long term it is unsustainable. When margins become more fraught, uber has room to raise prices on riders/cut rates for drivers, and has courted drivers who are not pulled to the brand because they are being nice just because, while lyft does not have room to do the same, given its courting of drivers who like the company because they are nice. I’m still not explaining it well but Lyft is internally inconsistent and therefore they are not sustainable. Their survival is fully dependent on them eventually reversing the kindness, which will upset employees and drivers, while uber’s survival is dependent on them doing more of what they are already doing and recruiting employees and drivers based on, meaning no dramatic change in strategic direction will have to occur. Hell, they’ve even televised their intention of moving to driverless vehicles. So there is a nice example of this, I think. I’ve always known Lyft was shit. I didn’t know exactly why but it was like, for the same reason that if I told you I had a two wheeled bike that worked fine with one wheel for now, you’d be like, “So he’s lying because that’s not logically possible. I wonder if he’s lying to me, or telling me something he thinks is true after lying to himself.” Every time lyft sends me friendly corresponence I’m jerking my head to the side.

Anyway, this Ti aux has a sense of OVERWHELMING WRONGNESS. It’s definitely the case that I had to step away from stellar maze for a few days after flat earth first made it’s appearance. I had a guy in my Lyft who made a flat earth claim to me and showed a picture of stars spinning (time lapse) in the sky, and I was like, “Yeah, that’s what it looks like at the poles,” and he said, “No, anywhere,” and I was like, “Shoot, that’s not true.” And we were at his drop off. Weird way to end a ride but par for the Lyft course lol.


#2

Well, I think your Ti-aux is pretty apparent. It’s just ALSO Ne-flavoured! You usually do lay out your logic and are informative or at least interesting, it just tends to trail around in very Ne fashion. Just like in ENxJ you will see the Ni as the “vision” they have for this or that project/goal, or ExFP’s Fi is very apparent in that they come off sincere/authentic in their enthusiasm and feelings.
So let’s say the aux is the image/form, and the dom is the direction and propulsion (and maybe the id is the fuel?).

I think your explanation of Uber vs Lyft shows how Uber can probably have more more market cap and flexibility, but you kinda undersell brand loyalty or brand goodwill, which may keep Lyft sustained in a niche market. Perhaps they won’t have true growth that shareholders would like to see, but it may remain viable out of sheer Fi-type loyalties haha. But I see what you mean that they drew themselves into an ideological hole by playing the image of “nice” so that if they do decide to be mean/“just another neoliberal capitalist ploy”, their supposed hypocrisy will backfire on them.

I think with Te-id, you can almost “taste” how Uber is just better-positioned to maximize the current market, to win, but the id tends to get trapped on satisfying itself if you’re not using the aux and dom to bring back to the reality of “does/should it really matter”.

i probably shoudlnto have written this when so sleepy bc maybe i had more to say but oh well! :smiley:


#3

I wish you would write this for all types. How hard do you have to work to do this shit? Like, do you just see it in people’s behavior, a sort of synesthesia, like shapes and colors in behavior that are like, discernable to you as “ah, I see the vision he has for this project” or whatever?

Is it Ni that allows you to see this?

Driving for rideshare co.s is a good chance for me to notice that generally, i don’t know what people are doing. I poke and prod a little but I’m totally at the mercy of their responses; mostly nobody leaves an impression on me. I can almost never tell what someone’s type might be. I think I’m better at identifying intuitives, and maybe kind of blind to the differences between sensors.

Edit to add: Entp: least likely to be a social ninja.

I approach getting information or connecting with someone with that same pot-clanging care you know and love from the time I snuck in your window.


#4

I have the opposite experience where people leave so many impressions on me, but I cannot name them or separate them. When someone talks to me, it is overwhelming. It feels like I lose my thinking faculty (which is already very weak) and it feels like a swim. When I leave them, then I continue to swim in whatever impression is left. It feels very useless and I get tired of it.


#5

I think I can tell your Ti by a sort of ?dryness? to your posts and sharing of thought process. Also there are similarities to my intp husband. I’d have to think (oh no) to figure out what they are.


#6

Isn’t tertiary function the most of visible?


#7

OK!

ENxJ = Ni aux, the VISION or image projection. ENTJ tend to have major projects/goals they wanna get done. They will corral people to do it some how, some way, usually by saying how much money they will make. ENFJ are similar, but their focus will be more social and often comes with a crafted perfect image of themselves–often become figureheads for social movements or at least media movements. Ne-id at the same time causes them to have wanderlust, never settling for long, hungry for better/new opportunities to test their mettle.

ESxJ = Si aux, some kind of established consistency? I’m more guessing this one since I am not AS interested in this type, but I think they project a very grounded practicality usually. Even if what they say or do is not actually sensical in a strictly logical/fact-based way, the way they explain it will come off as “common sense” and “right”. Se-id at the same time makes them crave indulgence, weakness for sex/food/money/violence and other instant gratifications that they may try to fend off by appearing more strict.

ExTP = Ti aux, will use logic and facts as a tool to get what they want (Te-id, so underneath all of this is some kind of desire to win or reach a goal lol). I don’t know how better to really explain this since it’s MY id, but I think they come off as very smart or at least clever in a mentally-alert kind of way. ENTP Ne flavour makes the Ti tend to flow everywhere, covering a range of topics in one thought as things easily latch onto tangents. ESTP Se flavour has more of a jump from one factoid to the next–sometimes in a disconnected way.

ExFP = Fi aux, will come off as sincere or authentic in their enthusiasms. They are often bubbly or strong emotionally and come of “so real”. Often they ARE very sincere is they they are trying to inspire or really rally-the-troops in some way, but Fe-id makes them validation-seeking. This can make them seem sincere-in-the-moment but also insubstantial because they want to feed their image of looking like a good or cool person or just being “liked”.

IxFJ = Fe aux, usually comes off as pretty helpful people-persons. Though through this site, you will notice that ISFJ tend to have a more practical and consistent version of this and INFJ tend to be more extreme between being dutiful/helpful and being cold/withdrawn. Fe is hard to pin down, so they have an overall veneer of “fake nicecess” to them because under that is Fi-id, which is generally some form of emotional torture or martyrdom.

IxTJ = Te aux, usually comes off as cold or robotic in an end-justify means way. Ti-id of disliking WRONG. This can be wrong by the rules, or wrong by things “not going to work”. Also just general information hoarding. lol ISTJ has Si flavour of more general consistency or traditional attitude so often seems more socially acceptable, while INTJ Ni flavour will often have a subversive or “shady” flavour (hence a more spy or corrupt aura haha!).

INxP = Ne aux, usually comes off as scatterbrained or quirky. Because they are introverted, are generally quiet, but when they do “share” it can come out in some giant flood that’s all over the place. With Ni-id there is usually some kind of deep anxiety/paranoiac/delusional sentiments that come through but with seeds of truth. A really makes-u-think kinda phenomenon! lol With INFP, this tends to be more dreamy and emotional with their Fi flavour, while INTP tend to flavour their quirk with Ti, so more a what-if experimenting scientist/inquirer vibe.

ISxP = Se aux, usually comes off as dangerous. LOL Well, so be more exact, they have a sort of physical alertness or tension to them. ESxP may generally have a physicality and vivaciousness, but are often more at ease with Se-dom, while ISxP usually seem tense/in a state of readiness/defensive. Could seem like anxiety (especially for ISFP) or taut dexterity. I think with Si-id, there tends to be grudge-nurturing alongside loyality-clinging, a possessiveness for things-that-matter-to-them.

That may be!
When I picture Ni in my mind, it tends to look like a “web” strung out across the depths of outerspace. Data from the “world” creates an overall impression, like a person’s overall personality. With enough input, you can zero in on where exactly the person may “sit” in comparison with everyone else, and also where the roots and tendrils of such a person “goes”. I think INFJ tend to be much better when it comes to the social/people aspect, since it’s not so much an area of expertise and interest to me, but I think INTJ and other Ni-focused people (ENxJs and INxP especially) experience it too.

Maybe it is most visible when it’s used in an extreme way because it’s also very clumsy if not used precisely/mindfully. Much like me using Fi to “yell at people” or say in a very juvenile way that “I AM ANGRY! I HATES IT!!! NO!!!”. It is very “pure” in a sense.