STELLAR MAZE DISCUSSION FORUM

Sun, Moon, Physics, and, Glitches in the Reality Code

I’m having a breakthrough. Or maybe it’s just that yummy Cookie Blue seeping into my bloodstream. Man I missed this cannabaic headspace.

Sun is linear, Moon is cyclical. The Sun is central to the terral system. But: it is not central, and only merely fundamental, to the lunar system. From the perspective of the Earth, Luna goes through phases. She seems to cycle. Why can’t she ever move on? Thinks Terra.

Ahahaha. Moon type knows what Terra might forget - The Sun is always leaving. From the Terral perspective where Sun is central, Sol seems reliable and everpresent, even if only contacting one side at a time. What does Sol see? An invisible gravity source, a black hole or a dark sun, of interest. And planets following Sol.

Man, what is Luna saying every night?? “Don’t forget Sol. Notice that Sol is still there, even if you cannot perceive directly.”

Hey this is a question of interest: Who says Sol sends the light? What if it is all Luna’s light? And Sol is but a black hole. A representation of the highest concentration of light absorbed. And temperature is the friction of Luna’s fabric essence interacting with the elements, on it’s path towards Sol the Hole?

What Are The Implications!

First, we notice that there are assumptions in the prevailing model and the one represented here. Then the simulated physical sequence of elaboration, in thought experiment, What is a Sun type and what is a Moon type, and why would one have priority over another when both are so necessary to the Terral experience of life? What is a psyche without this context? It would be but a thought. Unreal.

Planetary Molecules. Astrology Meets chemistry. But why? Because what is psychology without the chemical component? MB aspecting astrology in your brain constellations absolutely requires the traversal of chemical structures.

Haha, boom, I like that phrasing. It’s funny but true.

And Molecular Galaxies. What are those super big and complex chemical compounds? Or should we call them compositions? With Music we have Timing, with Geometry there is Spacing, with Spherics we have Timing and Spacing. Like a celestial harmony, which at no point ever excluded the Molecular Galaxies interacting in the psychosoma, never said no to the chemistry of joy, of love, of sadness, of anger, of sexuality, of hunger, of craving, of nausea.

Woah, now. Hold your horses. Hold the damn pegasi. What is an identity but a crystal galaxy in the cosmos of the brain?

What is a Sun Type, a Moon Type? But an angle or aspect or simply just a beautiful facet on the gemstone of this or that personality? One geometry, please! Fresh to the order. Fresh to death.

The spherical harmonics of cycles, and lines, and lines of cycles, and cycles of lines. Ones and Zeros, Exes and Oh-noes! Mahahaha

Anyway, ENTP feels nice to be. It’s chill. And INFJ moon, like poetry. Poetry meets physics, what are the fucking odds? Not that, not the poetry meets physics, but some other hidden side of my mind that is suggesting associations to me now. How did someone express the principles of physics in poetry? And the ghastly image of the physics of things was not poetic in the slightest, but the Gnosis was delivered via poetry. How???

Grrrrr that’s making me a little angry. I wanna know. But I’m gonna let it go because I don’t have the stomach to go back! C’mon, there’s something nice about people who don’t want to go deep. Who never go deep. Who wants to go deep to discover that life is a horror? Oh man I’m rambling, but anyway, the breakthrough!

Sun is linear and Moon is cyclical, but only from the perspective of Earth. I’d say from Moon’s perspective Moon would probably call herself Periodic. Moon would say that Sun is “intermittent”. Wait hold up. That’s just a placeholder, for a better word to arrive soon.

Ultimately, Earth is most attracted to Sun. Moon is most attracted to Earth. Yet Moon is complementary to the Sun, therefore it is Harmonious.

Okay at some point later I’m gonna have to figure out what this has to do with ENTP sublimities.

It’s so interesting to me that you are writing that as if you just discovered who you are. So interesting. How can it be? Has no-one in your life embraced your entp-ness? I guess you are very young though. I keep forgetting people here are half my age.

Amen to that.

But, but, but… I must see what’s down there. :pleading_face:
Don’t mind me. :zipper_mouth_face:

I think I’ve been down there so many times that I’m in such an UP mode. I’m in a determined mode actually. So much determination at the moment. Turning into a real looney bin and liking it more.

Keep it up then! :wink:

Lol I started to write you a long response, but you figured it out.

Yes. But specifically, giving the right amount of weight to your own role and experience of said relationship, not forgetting or overindulging. Lean too far into Fe and there is mimicry, forgetting the self. Lean too far into Fi superego and

I find that too much Fi superego paired with Fe tert equals projection of feelings onto the other person. Its like the more Fi there is, the harder it is to see it.

I think about it as superego function limits id and tert, when functioning properly. Too little and the id can take over the dom and masterbate with the tert. Too much, and the same thing happens, but in the negative, as the strength of the function is not enough to handle the emphasis.

Back to Blake’s planetary associations, heathy superego is the right amount of Saturn, limiting. Unhealthy superego is Neptune, an illusory ideal, which leads to an unhealthy expression of Saturn, punishing.

There is an association between the inferior and the superego I’ve been thinking about a lot, but I never write it down and always lose the words. Later.

Fe itself is a mimicry function. Fi, as an opposition, is like the essence of an individual, emphasis on authenticity and staying true to oneself. Fe is more about fitting in, harmonizing and getting along. Not rocking the boat. Not standing out too much. Harmonists, not soloists. You ever hear a harmony with hearing the Alto louder than the Bass, Tenor and Soprano? It doesn’t work.

Hmm, I’m not sure what you mean there. Would you elaborate/clarify when you have the time?

Very interesting. Your interpretation of this Fi superego and Fe tertiary dynamic seems to be couched in psychosocial terms. I can see how it would play out in that kind of setting, but I think, based on my current understanding anyway, that neither Fi nor Fe belong in the social setting for ENTP. Maybe Fe, but not a whole lot. Mostly Ti should be fine. Fi superego, how I am thinking about it, specifically referring to what I mean by “introverted relationship data” is inclusive of (but not exclusive to) interpersonal relationship data. However, even if it were a record of interpersonal stuff, it would be an impersonal record.

Yeah that makes sense. So I see that the tertiary temptation pulls towards the id, I would call this a psychological vector. What superego can do is form a triangle to balance it out, but the strongest outcome is not 2dimensional, but 3dimensional. If using the hidden strength Auxiliary, it should form a tetrahedral, which is balanced and sustainable. The shape of the psyche itself would operate in the context of the dominant function (the operating system) in a way, like a BIOS, diverting flow into each of the 4 vertices (aux, id, tert, superego) dynamically.

In this model, the inferior function (what is impossible) , the neutral function (what is irrelevant) and the hell function (what is unnecessary) are disengaged.

We are agreeing and you are just elaborating, yes?

Yes, I will need to think on how to clarify.

I do tend to take this angle.

I guess I think the superego always belongs in the social setting? It’s an introjection of the expectations of the other, parents, society, etc, so that function will be vital for guiding social behavior (but really all behavior). The aux is the method of transmission. A quick analogy would be aux=boat and superego=rudder, but it’s a little too rudimentary.

Wow I don’t even know how to conceive of Fi as impersonal. Its hard for me to think of any of the introverted functions as impersonal. From most to least it would be Fi-Si-Ni-Ti, but all still subjective.

I think I was understanding “introverted relationship data” as the introjection and metabolism of experience with others, quantified by Fi, which is, simply, how you feel. But to recall/revisit those experiences they would come through Ti, so I guess that could make it impersonal.

?

I think of this as what is uninteresting, becomes relevant if necessary to support the Dom, like a kind of inversion to gain perspective/check accuracy.

I really don’t agree with this description of the demonic function, find it very limiting and over-simplistic. It’s only hellish when it becomes completely conscious, or is experienced high up the conscious stack of another person. Even in relationship it isn’t necessarily hellish, more just grating and annoying, but can also be creative (like an inconjunct aspect, I liked that description from Blake). I like the socionics description of the 8th placement as role function, a subconscious complementary support of the dominant. I also like Beebe’s description of it, as a kind of supercharged inferior. He calls it daimon, coming from the outside and can act maliciously or benevolently depending on the growth needs of the psyche.

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God does seem to be the natural culmination of the superego. It fits nicely with the invisibility of God, as superego can also be blindspot. Using this metaphor, healthy development of the superego would be recognizing that God is not merely “out there” but glows from within.

Yes, that is kind-of what I meant by giving just enough weight to your own role/experiences in relationships. It can expand outward from relationships. YOU, your feelings, the small bright light that can be so easy to stop aside. But still not get confused between the little you, and the big you that is God. That seems unclear. Going to far into little you would mean superego takeover.

Lol, idk. I really didn’t take it further and it may fall apart if I do. Id is the underwater land, visible land is the aux? Stars sounds good for the tert, or maybe tert is the wind. You should try it a few ways.

I will have to check. I think of Si as more personal than Ni, as it is linked to the body whereas Ni transcends the personal for the archetypal, though the information accessed takes on a personal tint.

I link feeling and sensation and oppose them to thinking and intuition, same as the axes. I suppose they could also make a wheel, but I cant draw it here. I don’t separate out intuition as something other.

I don’t outright agree with this, but I need to think about it more.

Probably. T ids have F superegos for checks and balance.

I think I would argue the opposite, though I understand that it becomes conscious via intuition, so this is very clarifying. I think this is some of what I am trying to get at about the importance of the 8th function. It needs to collect, subconsciously to inform the dominant. This is similar to the 4th function, which also collects, but is conscious and weak, therefore frustrating.

Yeah, you don’t need to integrate it. Letting it be is the best possible way for it to work properly. You can “check” on it sometimes, but consciously working on it is a bad idea. This can be complicated by subtypes maybe?

This might be a good thing to look at through Fi superego. Understanding from that angle may help you. What can you do that is practical, but that you also actually like. And what secret feelings are driving the need, how will the need meet those feelings.

I’m stopping response here. The rest is you talking to yourself and it’s too coded for me to want to untangle.

As it’s Fi, only you can answer that. But I’m into this post.

I have a lot to say about this. Would say I’ll come back to it, but I’m quitting making promises like that.

For now, I’ll put this here:

These are statistics someone screengrabbed from behind the official MBTI institute paywal turned up by fortuitous googling (I think they are from 2018 or 19?). Blatant issues with the accuracy of the official MBTI assessment methodology aside, I can’t stop thinking about the implications.

Spoiler: I’m certain the internet is an integral factor in the trend shift, even accounting for the way age shifts self-assessment.

There was a longer reply here before?

**edit: I just skimmed it but it looked like it had some meat I wanted to process and respond to.

I don’t know if I can crack the code in your subsequent post. I get frustrated then lazy.

I saw it when I popped back on to make a quick post in Alex’s thread, but didn’t read it. I’ve just been wanting to post those statistics here for awhile, but never had an opportunity. How the internet is changing mass psychological process is my niche interest and I was excited you were talking about it! No need to feel bad, I’ve accepted the transient nature of posts here as a condition of participating.

Good to know that’s the right reaction. I typically do, just because it’s too difficult for me to decode and honestly seems like it’s just for you anyway.

Yeah I have no idea. I’ve always had difficulty understanding how I’m coming across to others, only gaining some skill with it maybe in my late 20’s. As a child I had hyperawareness of other people’s reactions/emotional interiority, but couldn’t make the connection back to myself effectively. I would either miss it, or take too much responsibility for it. It took a long time for me to realize people are mostly locked in their own minds, thinking about themselves. Any reactions to me are secondary to that process, and usually forgotten quickly unless I’ve triggered already-present psychic material. Then again, I may have more of an impact on others than I realize. I’m always surprised to find out I’m an introjected figure locked in someone’s mind with them, but it happens.

If I try to imagine into what it is like for a 3 year old, I travel somewhere instinctual. It’s mostly pre-verbal, related to energy waves that are interpreted immediately (in the body? somewhere like), bypassing consciousness. I would guess as an adult you can now bring them into consciousness, but don’t have to. I wonder how much of your own psychic material pollutes your read on others though. I don’t doubt you are very aware of other’s responses, and highly skilled at manipulation, for better or worse. That Fi superego work might help you sort where your mixing yourself with others in your read, if you are indeed doing that.

Dancing. I will read and learn some moves.

Hey, I just wanted to quick react to this, but if your posts are personal and/or don’t necessarily require a response, I don’t think that means they can’t bring anything of value to other people or that you should stop posting them.

I personally very much enjoy reading things I don’t understand. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t. :wink:

I know. I assume? I imagine?

You do whatever feels right, there’s no pressure/expectations and no censorship here either.

Can’t escape the feelz anyway, might as well just surf the waves.
But I must admit that I’m looking forward to seeing more of that inner…

something :smiling_imp:

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Today is not a good day for writing, very fussy and my mind is in other places. For now

I agree with Nur. I meant to share my impressions/observations of what you were doing with this style of post, and my reaction of being unsure how/if to respond. Did not intend to police your behavior here, or imply that the posts have no value. I find value in them, both as typology data points and as whiffs of some kind of thought-essence. I find it nearly incomprehensible but somehow not that different (in rhythm) from some of my own internal process, and occasionally something hits clearly. Please carry on with this dancing if you wish to.

Ok so writing is making me feel better. Plus I ate some CBD.

Yes I have this book! I was exposed to it doing some research on why the European witch trials started as men being condemned for heresy and turned into women being condemned for witchcraft. Lately I’ve been re-listening to it as an audiobook as I don’t remember the specifics. I’m up to Egypt rn. I think he’s really onto something, and wonder what he would have to say about what’s occurred in the past 30 years, especially in relation to images, the internet, and the blurring of gender. What do you think of the book?

This is making something click about the difference between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te. Taking it with a grain of salt, due to your history of performance, but I think there’s some continuity to it.

I differ from you a little here, but I think it’s because we are taking different angles on truth ala our flipped id/aux (and probably also our Gemini mercury/Virgo mercury square). Like you can never know for sure, hard bottom line, if someone is saying the truth. BUT, when someone is “speaking their truth” there is an undeniable aura to it. There’s a reason “ring of truth” is a colloquialism. Of course sensing that aura is not enough to confirm truth beyond doubt, and then there is the issue of the impermanence of truth.

When someone gives me a self report, it can tell me how they see themselves, how they want to be seen, how they actually are, or some combination of the three. It’s a good place to start, and sometimes “truth” emerges from under the words that is more than if I relied on my own impressions.

I’m with you on the necessity of interaction, but can still be very biased. The projection would need to be stronger, cause there’s more information presenting to prevent it from sticking.

This sounds like the id of your moon talking. It sounds very distressing, the relentlessness and violation of it, at least to me as reader.

By manipulation and reading others I meant more your reported (and displayed) skill with mimicry and pushing buttons to get a desired reaction, and less a puppermaster who can grab someone by the soul. It’s more like grab them by the defense mechanisms then improve. This can be in the negative, like trolling, or in the positive, joking or dialoging.

Yeah, this is what I mean by improv. Lol, responding as I read.

Is there so much difference between these? Different forms.

I agree that assuming you have someone all wrapped up is a recipe for being wrong. How good were you as a kid at telling if someone was lying or not?

There’s some association going on here between sincerity and continuity over time. Like, a person has to earn the title of sincerity by establishing a repeated behavior pattern, and a moment of sincerity doesn’t really count without this foundation.

Maybe breaking down that need with this comment?

This makes me sad. I had a lot of troubles with betrayed trust when younger, and could be very fatalistic about it. It made me feel very isolated and lonely, deeply depressed that you can never truly know another person. As I age that becomes less important to me, and I believe less in that “truth”. Part of it is I’ve accepted my loneliness/isolation more, and come more to terms with the limits of friendship/relationships in general. I’ve also gotten better at being in the present moment, and learned that just because an encounter is transient doesn’t necessarily mean it lacks depth. For awhile I was fixated on impossible relationships because of the felt intensity of depth barriers created. Whether or not that depth was “real” is of course debatable in principle, but I know what I know.

Do you still wish for friends? I’ve remember you talking about friends here before, so maybe there is a difference between friend and Friend.

Very much so. Embodiment is essential for life, at least life as we know it. I’m trying to write about working with changes caused by the internet in therapy, and bringing the client back into the body is huge. Been thinking about exercises parents can do with kids to “threshold cross” in and out of the body when moving between screen and life.

I’m terrible with embodiment. It’s a daily struggle, and I’m 100% addicted to the internet.

I recently had to write a paper about healing, and wrote about healing as movement. Dancing opens a space for that inner movement to occur. I believe I understand you.

I’ve been meditating on your advice for embodiment. Slowly. It’s good and correct. The practices you outlined are ones I am familiar with, but have trouble getting myself to do. My process of embodiment involves passing through a period of intense fear. I’m fearful at core, and cowardly about facing it. The reality of my vulnerability is difficult for me to come to terms with.

If I can push through the initial intensity of the transition back to body it’s easier for me to carry. I like the way you phrased some of it, made it more enticing with context.

This sounds good. I’ve been physically inactive and the consequences have more than caught up.

This is having consequences, though not the bulk of the issue. I want to come back, still working on grounding enough to do so.

Hm.

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