So I was wondering what this “Love is the answer” (INTJ) vs “Love is the question” (INFJ) thing is about. Can someone please explain ?
So I was wondering what this “Love is the answer” (INTJ) vs “Love is the question” (INFJ) thing is about. Can someone please explain ?
I am not SURE sure, but it might have to do with each type poking into their tertiary and really rounding out their conclusions/wisdom about life and existence.
INTJ may grow warm over time and discover love and compassion for fellow wretched beings. Thus “love… is the answer! :0 If only people loved one another better!! All the efficiency in the world means nothing unless one feels loved!”. While INFJ will move into Ti after all these feelingsy overloads and long stints into trying to please people. They may really try to dissect “but what is love, what kind of love, how does one really love if at all? does it exist? do I actually love?” etc.
Hmm… I guess… INTJ tend to simplify things and INFJ tend to complicate them… INTJ like closure… INFJ think they like closure… but they find it too simple when they are offered it…
Dad = INTJ
He has a threshold… if you succeed in crossing it, you shall be considered worthy of being a loved one and shall win his loyalty, trust and support… the threshold is set very high… almost no one crosses it, but the ones who do, get special privileges, because it makes sense… they trust their criteria enough to believe you must deserve it… I won’t say INTJ think only love is all you need… it’s more the image of emotional simplicity those words conjure that’s important… also, they have limited emotional energy available for dissipation in this department, hence, must not be wasted…
Me = INFJ
If I love you, it’s quite simple in my head… but, if you want to make me feel confused about how I feel about you, tell me you love me… I will question every single thing I have ever thought or felt about you… is this all there is to discover? Is this the most complete feeling there is to feel? Is this sustainable? Is this enough? Was it even you I loved or was it the mystery? Does everyone in love feel this way? Why isn’t it enough to love and be loved? And so on… Complications in the feels… love is a question and leads to more questions… too much energy available to burn here…
I think about this a lot but it must be in a different infp sort of way, but I do doubt love all the time.
I think INFJs will often have a couple of people they love in a kind of dumbly loyal way. “I will always be on this person’s side come hell or high water”, that type of thing. I think it’s hard for them to conjure up that kind of steadfast love romantically, though. That type of love coming from an INFJ always seems more familial or platonic. Though, I do know one INFJ guy who’s been happily married for almost two decades. So it’s not like it’s hopeless.
I also kind of feel like INFJ guys’ love often has more…longevity or steadiness to it (or is it obsession? Haha!) For bette or worse. Like the ones I’ve known will sort of stay in these unhealthy relationships or be fixated with some girl for a really long time, even while knowing the girl is messed up or just straight up terrible.
The INFJ women I know fall out of love fast and cut off ties fast. It’s like, case closed, end of story, never look back. One of my INFJ friends got cheated on by her fiancee, spent a single night crying in the woods, then went to his dorm with a baseball bat, bashed in all his car windows, then felt way better and detached herself emotionally. All in the space of maybe two or three days.
I think I’ve only really “fallen in love” once. It felt like a sickness that I never wanted to end. Like I just wanted to melt into the person’s skin and that was all I could think about. At the time I really felt like I couldn’t imagine not feeling that way about this person.
In hindsight, given that I was really young and hormonal at the time, I can see easily how that such a love could just peter out, worn down by the abrasions and irritations of close constant contact. Life with a regular ol’ imperfect human being can’t be all poetry, and the prosaic moments can be very off-putting indeed. When I think about that time, even though back then I never wanted that feeling to end, now I just think it seems like it would give me stress craps. I’m sure some of it is emotional cowardice on my part, but oh well. The payoff versus the stress, time, and energy a relationship costs doesn’t seem worth it to me, at least not right now.
I think for me my steadiest loves that have made me the happiest have been platonic friendships.
Ohhh I love this… Yes! That’s how I used to feel too… maybe it’s the id saying “yasss gimme more of this!”… ugh… it’s so draining because so much of it is a one way longing… even when a guy reciprocates there’s just something off about the intensity level… and actually, the other party isn’t even aware of the depth of the desire… how do I express these feelings when I’m ashamed of feeling them? A person would probably freak out if I said things like “I want to eat you, non-cannibalistically”… haha… this one time, I imagined my heart literally open up and enclose a person… I don’t know how to describe it accurately… but it was like expanding to make room, tearing open to encapsulate and then sealing shut… I thought I would keep the person warm and safe inside forever… but I feel disgusted when i think about it now… eww! I think, the very few experiences I’ve had, have been enough to show me that I don’t want to be with people who make me feel that way… those are definitely not the best parts of me, because they do not stand the test of time… and I don’t think I actually want it to be reciprocated, ever… I guess i like being in my head more than anything else… when people say things like “I love you” within a romantic context, I get stressed out because it starts feeling like an obligation and I’m not good with obligations… it feels like a gun to my head… I already feel too responsible for the feelings of others… I don’t want to feel responsible for the other person’s “love” on top of that… it’s nice when it’s coming from friends or my sister… makes me feel fuzzy and secure because I know there’s some sort of distance and space in that kind of love… that kind of love lasts…
@piggie Yeah, I think I tend to simplify. It’s a lot of either-or kind of thinking. Either worth my time or not, worth my trust or not. Like you said, not a lot of emotional energy to spend hemming and hawing about how to show or demonstrate this and other nuances.
@lunar Yeah, I think infp do this a lot too, but it’s a different flavour. I think because even if they think about it and doubt it all the time, they also very much have room to enjoy it? I feel like infj probably purely “enjoy” love–especially the romantic kind-- a lot less. lol They get addicted, and they get obssessed, but it’s not as “fun” or “joyful”. It often sounds like “soul work” or “a test” or something coming from them.
@wendy Yeah!! Love as illness to overcome or it will consume you is but one of many infj flavour variations hahaha! I like how good platonic friends have special place for infj because no one eats one another… may be just beat each other up a little bit. I think infj like that.
Yeah I don’t know…I feel myself growing out of this whole romantic love stuff. But I don’t know if that is a type-based thing. Like I am sick of romance. But maybe it’s something else going on… because I feel I want romance but I just don’t want it. Want but don’t want.
Hmm, maybe it is a marriage thing!
I think INFJs are doomed in love. A deep love, anyways. Blake likes to say that INFJs need a muse. This muse - they place so incredibly high that the INFJ could never reach the muse NOR could the muse actually be what the INFJ imagines. So, this is where I think INFJs fall in and out of love so fast. That idolize their muse. There is no other than their muse. BUT, one must have some sense of life and fulfillment, right? So they fall in love, then they think, this is not my muse. Then they leave that person or sabotage it in some way. It’s a never-ending cycle. If it’s not acting out in reality, it’s definitely real in their minds. This sounds like a lot of suffering, right? I have a personal opinion that INFJs like to suffer. They need to suffer. They feel real when they suffer. Being consistently happy is not a reality for INFJs.
INTJ seem like they have better things to do than see/feel artistic beauty in suffering. Shit is regimented and everything serves a purpose. If a love is causing an INTJ strife, they will dump that shit so fast and not even blink an eye. INTJs are more concerned with “do you fit in my life” (INTJ) vs. “do you fuck my life up just enough to make me gravitate towards your tilted sphere” (INFJ).
Whaddya guys think? Am I close?
I agree with everything except this part. I think they will go through a difficult passage then maybe not blink an eye. I really don’t think it is that easy for them to just dump a love.
Agreed. However, there is a huge difference. Let’s say there’s an INTJ who has a two week “thing” with someone. They have fun, things are going great, but that bitch be crazy. So, the INTJ breaks that relationship fast. I don’t think an INTJ wants to be dealing with that stuff. They literally don’t have time for nonsense. And this INTJ will remember this past “love” in a very objective example of experience.
Let’s take the same situation with an INFJ. They may want to end it, because again, that bitch be crazy. But, it will take them much longer. Could last literally a lifetime. And if/when it does end, there is still a high change that this INFJ will idolize this crazy bitch in some nonsensical, otherworldly way.
I think that INTJ can feel pain, but I don’t believe it’s anything comparable to INFJ. I don’t even think it’s detectable using the same scale. Now, whether this means INFJ feel too much or INTJ feel too less, I don’t know. Charts can always be skewed. But there is a huge difference here. It is T vs F.
Yeah I don’t know.
I don’t really know.
Another thought. I don’t believe you ever get closure from an INFJ.
INFJs and INTJs kinda intersect each other’s development at some point. INTJs start out in life questioning things. They then quickly figure shit out and have a set of definitions and outlines they follow (usually strictly) in life. INFJs think they know everything when they’re younger. Then they get older and bam, they question everything. So, an INFJ will most likely not give you closure if you’re into that sort of thing. Because they don’t have an answer. At least one that makes any sense. INTJs will you give you clear closure if you ask for it.
Like I picture breaking up with Prax and asking her, “why”. She would right out list every single thing that led her to the decision in dumping me. No prob. And I don’t think it’s a mean quality, I just think INTJs KNOW, so if someone asks, they’ll lay it out.
If you ask an INFJ “why”, they won’t answer. Because they don’t have an answer. They’re most likely still writing poetry about you, so they haven’t even come to “why”. And like I said earlier, I believe INFJs love torture. So, they will avoid “why” all their lives. They’ll poke a dead animal to make sure it’s dead. As a matter of fact, they may animate the poor creature every so often to see if there’s life in it.
No I don’t avoid why. I ask myself why all the time and I even have answers, but they are not answers people want to hear.
Talk about your torture…
The poking and reanimating? Yes. The poetry? Not as much, for me anyway. Or in very few cases. And it is rarely if ever set to paper.
I want to hear them. I went so far as to tell an INFJ to tell me to “fuck off”, “I never want to see you or talk to you again”, “don’t ever contact me ever again”. I got nothing. That’s maybe my Fe dom coming into play though. I need the feedback, the response, no matter what it is. Perhaps I would be too fragile for the answer? Nah. Tell me all the reasons I suck. I want to hear it.
Reanimating…you guys are morbid. That’s why I love you.
Speaking of feedback, hi @E_M! Tell us some stuff about you? Your story? This is the only post of yours…
Okay, you said you wanted to hear it, so I’ll take your word for it…here goes!
So I think the kind of passionate, romantic love that xNFJs dream about (I’d say, especially ENFJs) is indeed very difficult if not impossible for an INFJ to achieve on a long-term basis. But I wouldn’t say “INFJs are doomed in love” any more than I would say ENFJs are - by which I mean, it’s difficult though not impossible. I mean, that ongoing, fiery passionate sexy love…is that really “deep”? It may be strong, but is it DEEP? Something to think about. I won’t name names, but we do have at least one or two INFJs in here who seem to be in committed, loving, long-term relationships. There is one older INFJ guy I know who loves his wife in that familially loyal sense INFJs usually reserve only for parents, siblings, or long-time friends. The latter is the only one I’ve just mentioned that I know personally and is in a relationship, but I wouldn’t say his love isn’t deep. So like I said: difficult and rare, probably, but not impossible. Maybe it doesn’t look like that sort of fiery, love-of-the-stars type of love you’re thinking of, but that doesn’t negate its depth or trueness.
“There is still a high change that this INFJ will idolize this crazy bitch in some nonsensical, otherworldly way.” From what I’ve seen, once an INFJ has actually been through the wringer of a relationship with someone, they see the person pretty realistically. They know “the bitch be crazy”. They may still love the person, and may not want to give up on them, but they know how things are. I do think the chance of idolization/romanticization of a person is much higher when it’s someone the INFJ has gotten attached to somehow but never actually gets deeply involved with.
As to happiness, I think a lot of types get a sort of masochistic…not pleasure, but satisfaction out of suffering. INFJs are just kind of wired to do a lot of it. One of my instructors in college was an INFJ who said, “If someone is happy in the world we live in today, they’re either ignorant or stupid.” I think that’s a very, uh…INFJ mindset, haha. Once you get a glimpse, or for some people, a good solid eyeful of the ugly underbelly of the world and what people do, it’s hard to unsee it. Hard to feel like you have the right to be “happy” when there’s so much misery everywhere. But INFJs are at their active best in times of extreme crisis, I think. We’re creatures of inertia. Hard to get moving on anything because there’s too much time spent hemming and hawing over most things. But if something needs to be done IMMEDIATELY and it’s DIRE and there’s NOBODY ELSE who can or will do something about it, then and only then will an INFJ act quickly and decisively.
And I think most of us know this deep in our hearts. So, yeah, there’s some longing for a bit of drama. I don’t think we actually want people to fuck up our lives, though. It’s more like…loving the feeling of being in love. “Love is a hell of a drug”. The problem is that it gets to be too much. It either wears itself out, and the INFJ is left kind of drained and disgusted at themselves, or it wears the other person out, and the other person is kind of drained and disgusted at the INFJ. The former seems more the tendency of the INFJ woman; the latter seems to happen more to INFJ men.
I will say that contrary to an INFJ not having the patience for an ENFJ, I think generally an ENFJ would not have the patience for an INFJ. Especially if it was a male INFJ getting involved with an ENFJ woman. INFJs in their feelings are not very “cool”. Even if we can express those feelings poetically or whatever. Hey, maybe that’s why we do it.
(Tangent: writing about this is making me think about Blake telling INFJ men not to marry ESFP women. One of my good friends is a guy INFJ and dated an ESFP girl for a good while and, Jesus Christ. Hearing about this relationship just makes me remember Blake saying, “You will have your day in court. Guaranteed.”)
“If you ask an INFJ ‘why’, they won’t answer. Because they don’t have an answer. They’re most likely still writing poetry about you, so they haven’t even come to ‘why’.” Okay, I can see you really like this idea, so I hate to say this, but this part is flat-out wrong. INFJs know exactly “why”, trust me. If an INFJ doesn’t tell you, it’s because they know you won’t like the answer.
INFJs tend to be pretty choosy in how they expend their emotional energy. They’re also pretty good at gauging how people will react to shit. See Blake’s statement that 90% of the time we’re right about what people will do. If an INFJ is not elaborating, trust me, you don’t want them to. This is especially the case with ENFx types, whom I find as a type to be maybe the Top Level at being like, “I can handle the cold hard truth! Just lay it on me!”…but when you give it to them they actually can’t handle it at all. Like, they flip their lid.
Then five minutes later they’re like “Actually I don’t care! About the thing you said! I don’t care at all!” (Bonus points: “Actually I think it’s really funny!!”) …But then at some point, they’ll try to find some other tack to “get back at you” for your negativity or whatever. It just all feels like a big Fe game. This is why INFJs will tend to not be upfront to ENFx folks about the why on certain things. If you know an INTJ who’s friends with an INFJ, you can ask them. If an INFJ is friends with an INTJ, the latter will be hearing all the dirt in the world. And it’s not pretty.
As for this: “I think that INTJ can feel pain, but I don’t believe it’s anything comparable to INFJ. I don’t even think it’s detectable using the same scale.” I agree somewhat, but…also not. I would argue that INTJs take pain a lot harder than INFJs do. INFJs are wired to suffer a lot, like I said, but they’re also kind of wired to…roll with those punches a bit.
I actually went and asked my INTJ friend about this, and here’s what she said: “INTJs give up when the cons clearly outweigh the pros. So they can take a while to weigh carefully! I think if an INTJ was in love, they don’t wanna just be like, “I was wrong! My criteria was wrong!” It would take a bit to readjust that life philosophy into something coherent before they break up, probably. Same goes if the person breaks up with them, they’ll have to sort through why it could have happened into something coherent. If it just doesn’t make sense at all, they lose trust in people in general, they won’t just come away unscathed. This is why INTJ don’t like opening up in the first place, haha. They know they will change their whole worldview from it if something goes wrong.”
Somehow to me, INTJs expressing sadness somehow affects me way more than all of us poetic NF types. Like something about the very simple way they’ll say things. Not getting any comfort or satisfaction out of expressing things “beautifully”. Sadness and heartache just being starkly what it is, and kind of untouchable. Man. I’m getting bummed out just thinking about it.
holy… is this real?
this must be real…
it sounds like all the INFJs around me.
i don’t understand. ZERO. nada. never.
it’s like they WANT to be the victim.
almost all the INFJs don’t like when the other person ‘loves’ more than the INFJ.
they LOVE the chase. or… is it called a chase?
it seems like they love the chase more than ESTPs.
but in a morbid way.
from outsider’s perspective, they really do seem to love to just suffer.
but they don’t even see it that way.
i remember telling one INFJ
“dude, it seems like the girl you love the most is the one that hurts you the most. it seems like you want her because you can’t get her. and you know you can’t achieve that love from her.”
he didn’t want to hear that.
they are sometimes the most stubborn when it comes to relationship.
sometimes they know CLEARLY it’s toxic.
but something just pulls them back to it.
never let go.
beautiful and unbroken vs beautiful and broken,
INFJ, they choose beautiful and broken…?
one of the most bizarre thing i heard from an INFJ,
after being cheated on 3 times, lied to, and i asked "do you still love her?"
and he said, “…yes… i still love her. i want to forgive her.”
biggest heart you INFJs.
i will never be like this. but i hope i can be like this.
but i don’t want to be like this…
Excuse me, I guess I skipped the introductory phase! I’m a student with an amateurish interest in MBTI and other abstract stuff…aka a person who still has a lot to learn from other tellurians and life in general, hence my subscription to Stellarmaze. And I have to say, thank you for your answers They were really interesting.
Holy scheiße, those be a lot of words.
Yeah, I agree ENFJs are doomed too. But honestly, ENFJs don’t harbor the weight of it for too long. Only when they’re due for their period.
Definitely! I think I didn’t elaborate my thoughts on this. Great poetry and solutions come from INFJ grief.
Hmm. Hard to say. I think on the surface definitions of these types, I would agree with you. However, I find INFJs to be truly fascinating. REALLY. So, I try to curtail my bad habits when interacting with you guys.[quote=“Wendy, post:17, topic:99”]
If an INFJ doesn’t tell you, it’s because they know you won’t like the answer.
Hmmm… I’m not buying it. Aren’t INFJs assholes??? haha