STELLAR MAZE DISCUSSION FORUM

What is instinct?


#1

Instinct is the intuition of sensation.


When feelings think
#2

I love that.


#3

I was gonna say that for Se types, a lot of cognitions become reflex-like.
Take supernocturnal’s ESTP Ti. Instead of information churning and focused dissection (like maybe intp would engage in), it’s much more reactive. Fast, instant.

While I suppose “impressions” are the sensations of intuition, since I always imagine a “web” of thought and ideas/universal consciousness being vibrated or pressed upon in some way, leading to “revelation” .


#4

It’s gettin’ trippy in here, man.

Hey @Prax, I like what you started there, continue please. Elaborate the reactive and fast and instant part dealing with Se types’ cognitions. Lay some layman on me, man.


#5

So what is the sensation of intuition, I wonder?


#6

Gut feeling?


#7

@Ankh Haha well, I don’t know how else to simplify. I guess it’s like Se-version of Fe would be an instant smile-back or mirroring of emotions. Someone acts tough, you act tough back, someone is nice, you play nice. Subconscious on your part, almost ingrained. Maybe Se’s version of Ti is the instant comeback or witticism. Some people don’t even seem to think much but they’re so snappy!
I guess Se’s version of every other cognition is like that. Almost and echo-back or clap-back?

@stewart I said impressions, so sorta like esp spidey senses… Gut feeling I guess can be divided into fight/flight response or also just a specific “vision” of how somethng will go down.


#8

Instinct - an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli. (brought to you by the Google machine)

The alternate definition that Blake provides is like SPOT ON. I always like to look up definitions of words to bring me exactly back to the breakdown of the collective definition. Cause I like to make up my own definitions of course, because we each have our own definitions of words too.

I am more curious in the possibility that you were saying instinct is reactive. Sorry, maybe I inquired funny. I don’t know how to ask questions sometimes. Cause when I think of intuition of sensation, I don’t think of a reaction being performed. I don’t see an action, so I don’t see a reaction.

I just think you took Blake’s thought and continued in down a path with a lot more trees and details like berries on the tree and I’m trying to follow you down that path. :grimacing: (by the way, this emoji is defined as a grimace, but I see it as an awkward smile) I like berries on trees! It means there are birds there! :bird:


Is it really "spot on"?
#9

I don’t know if it has to do with the above, but I have some students that if they work on stuff ahead of time they don’t do better. They do best setting up an emergency and opening up the parachute at the last minute. It is like they want a high pressured tetris to get them out of situations. I have one guy he says he can do 2 days before the test at best. I know Ti has something to do with it but maybe Se too. Only thing is I can see Ne/Ti doing something similar. But like istp…they are really into last minute parachute. Estp too.


#10

Something that came to mind about Se/instinct:

Se doesn’t only stand for physical dexterity and immediacy…
It also means great mental gymnastics to escape cognitive dissonance!


#11

O really! Do tell!


#12

I think it comes into fore when you try to argue with Se-dominant people and it just seems like they can do mental backflips to not even see logical inconsistencies in their arguments. It’s probably what makes them have comebacks in the nick of time to shut down or divert conversations.

There’s a deftness to this mental ability even though it’s probably not intellectually or even ethically rigorous.


#13

Give me an example. Were you thinking of @supernokturnal?


#14

ESTP I knew, not supernok.
If I hit a sore spot, or a double standard, he would flip the conversation so fast I’d get a kind of surreal whiplash. It would suddenly be about me and how I was overreacting, making a mountain out of a molehill, how I was being immature, my weakness exposed to avoid his own weakness or inability to argue convincingly, in one case he just did not have a leg to stand on. When flipping didn’t work, he would just stop talking to me, using silence to force my harmonizing.
Although, now I think about it, I’ve had ENTP’s do the same thing. But they do a much better job blowing me away with their verbage and I am the one that walks away.

And before anyone thinks I am bitter or angry, I am just stating the way it went down. I love these people. We all have quirky behaviors.


#15

Sorry, couldn’t resist. :yum:

Well, if an ESTP and an ENTP can both do a similar type of flipping in convo then me thinks that is probaly a Ti-Fe thing. Which makes more sense actually.

INFJs and ISFJs do a similar thing I think.

Still waiting for @Prax to give example of this.


#16

I am used to it. I get ‘That’s what she said’ comments frequently.
You’d think I’d watch out but I never see it coming.


#17

Yes, it is so.


#18

yes Blake! she’s talking about me hahahha

and i believe so. the timing is too precise.

because we recently exchanged some emails back and forth and i FLIPPEDDADFUACKAFKD

not at her. but i flipped.

i’m waiting for her examples too. i’m curious also.


#19

It seems to obvious to me that it’s hard to break down and explain… HMMM… lol
I was talking to Wendy about different ESTPs in general at the time, but let me try to out into my own words.

Okay, so you know if sometimes ESTP or ESFP are “caught” or being criticized in some way and they just jump to something else that makes half sense but if you look into it it doesn’t? It’s going to be something like this:

someone: Hey, ESxP, you were really mean and out of line!
ESTP: But I was only saying what I heard! Here are some facts. So I disagree okay? I’m not trying to be mean so I’m sorry you’re hurt, but don’t get me wrong!
ESFP probably: You know what she is kind of a bitch. She does this and this and no one can take it. So whatever it happened and she’s making a big deal. You’re making a big deal!

ESTP is a bit more “slick” because they use facts while ESFP is like a “mean girl” stereotype who attacks people’s character. But they both often get away with stuff because they throw out a one-liner that… sort of… maybe explains their justification?.. It’s distracting enough for the person to think about so ESxP can move onto a different subject lol. But if you were to backtrack and look at the justification, it doesn’t mean much of anything!

Super kind of did this when Erika was upset at him (and me lol), he said a lot of apologies and words to placate her but then he also threw in:
“and i dont know your background at all. i’m just going off on piggie and prax’s comments, and seeing the possibilities, but you haven’t answered to those so i don’t know.”
I bet piggie was also laughing because “wow! you threw us under the bus, super! LOL ESTP!”

ESTP and probably ESFP often split/divert the blame so they are really not at fault or go off into some other tangent. Trump does this too. If he is caught “lying” or saying something that’s not true, he will just be “but I heard it on Fox news! So I didn’t lie” and then “anyway America doesn’t win anymore and I am very concerned about that”. So in one sense okay that’s true you didn’t “knowingly” lie, but in another sense, maybe you should have known better and not blame others when you chose bad sources? But then he moved onto some other topic about him trying to be a good guy and it just confuses everyone enough that he escapes the original criticism.

ENTP do this too in some sense but it’s more “smooth” because they spring off of other logical connections until you get lost (Ne style) lol. ESxP when they do it, it’s more sudden switching of tracks. Sometimes very little connection between two ideas. It’s like suddenly switching train tracks and you feel like you were forced to go onto the new track and are on a whole new ride altogether because the last track is now derailed. Haha… I hope that makes sense. I think it’s hard to explain.

I think a lot of people do this, not just ESxP, but ESxP are the best at it, which is why it looks like they can live happy and carefree lives. Just backflip onto another track and lose the last one! Wow! Great mental gymnastics! If you can control your many cognitive dissonances (the mental stress (discomfort) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values; when performing an action that contradicts one of those beliefs, ideas, or values; or when confronted with new information that contradicts one of the beliefs, ideas, and values), you can have happiness. Hence this chart:

https://forum.stellarmaze.com/uploads/db8680/original/1X/b581b2a3f58d3065c3cc0c93a945cc5dc212899a.jpg

I feel like ENTJ happies because even if they can’t manage their cognitive dissonance quite as well, they still have money and get their way (Te successes). Dunno about ENTP, it’s probably because their liquidity of mental deluges comes back to bite them harder in the long run. Too much Si memory? Need to evaporate that memory like ESxP can?

INFJ/INTJ are a bit TERRIBLE at this too, which is why you see them stuck and depressed when they can’t “unjumble” their thoughts. Even if they give themselves a “justification”, they often still have the feeling that it’s not good enough, that it’s still a sign of weakness, etc. And they stay stuck and frustrated about their imperfections. I guess INTP least of all because lol… so MUCH cognitive dissonance in world to manage. It is attack on all their stand for: a consistent Ti framework!


#20

Anyway, I think it’s an Se-type mental dexterity thing. A gift bestowed by high quality Se. You don’t become too “attached” to your own many probably contradictory “ideas” and “feelings”, hence easier gymnastics.
And it’s hard to catch in-the-moment while you experience it, I think. It’s only when the words are written down that you’re like “wtf is any of this. how did I get trapped in this nonsense. how did i let them get away with this”.

The Fe part maybe smoothens it out for the audience in both ExTP, but the internals to the person is what I am more thinking of at the moment because I am always like “how they they be so pleased with themselves despite everything!”. Maybe I would think ENTP share the same self-pleasedness, but idk. Their “going off the rails” is a completely different kind of mess to me.