From this post, my sciency buttons were pushed…
With regard to human evolution.
It is weird to me how uninteresting @supernokturnal finds normal scientific discourse / theory, as compared to how interesting you find religious stuff and conspiracy theory.
It is also weird to me how uninterested most on this forum are in scientific methods and theories in general, or perhaps it’s just not any fun to talk about it here since we have daily interaction with science and scientific approaches off the forum?
Preachy, atheistic, asshole scientists might be jerks but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything about their theories. Astute StellarMazians would surely note accurately that it likely makes them less likely to seek evidence that contradicts their views. Yes—but scientists exist in a domain that lives in the measurable world; there are other scientists who can benefit from destroying their theories and who can do it with reproducible evidence and such; I am not saying this is easy—it’s a slow slog to overturn dogma, even when there is evidence that is pretty freaking clear. Contrary ideas will be buried and people will not be funded and all that. But not forever. The system itself is not set up in a universe apart from empirical tests, and so, accurate counters to existing dogma have a tendency to slowly oscillate their way into the light.
I guess I wonder how many of the dogmatic scientist types you folks have met in real life. Are they preachier than the dogmatic religious or the dogmatic political? Perhaps they are—I’ve never met them, but I worked with scientists at BYU, a mormon school, like this one guy who said “I came to BYU to teach Mormonism about evolution.” Mormonism rejected Evolution 50 years ago but doesn’t anymore, though a conservative (who recently died) drew some line at human evolution in the mid 90s; this is not that much more sensical than saying that 2+2=4 but 4+2 totally does not equal 6.
Have you ever met a dogmatic person who discovers they are wrong and changes their views? I have, and their prior preachyness didn’t preclude it from happening. Either religious or political or scientific, it does happen.
There are very few places in my world in which science is defended or practiced. Not in the public sphere in the US, not in the private sphere in the US. I can’t quite relate to the idea that scientists are the bullies in the world. Really fucking hard for me to see that anywhere. I speak to almost no one who understands science.
ANDDD last of all, just because the theory of evolution is the most important bundle of things I understand about the world, by which I mean, the theory is a lens that changes the way I see almost everything in the world:
The theory of evolution by natural selection is a pretty robust theory, and is not particularly dangerous to the religious worldview. Hard to sum it all up in a bite sized chunk, but suffice it to say, if you put a gun to my head, or someone I love’s head, and said, “the gun is all knowing and the gun knows the answer and will fire if you get the answer wrong: which is most true:” Humans A) Did not, B) Might have, C) Probably did, or D) “for fucking sure” evolved from a primate ancestor of other existent Apes? You have a day to consider the question." Well, my heart rate would not rise as I replied in an instant that the answer is D, “For fucking sure.” This is because I’ve studied the fuck out of evolution. It’s always possible that I’m wrong, of course, but not possible enough to get my heart rate up. It’s possible that humans didn’t evolve in this way just like it’s possible that I might be living in a matrix or whatever. It’s possible in the way that is meaningless, in the postmodern way where there are no facts.