Why Do People Make Life More Tragic and Painful Than It Has To Be?


#1

Why Do People Make Life More Tragic and Painful Than It Has To Be?

This may not be the best topic, but I’m still am having difficulty processing recent events in our world today that pains me and I don’t know what to do going forward anymore. This is the most prominent question that just keeps running over and over in my head when tragic events in the world occur - especially ones that occur close to home(like mass murders in Las Vegas). Why do people make life more difficult and tragic than it already is? Do they just like drama and tragedy?

Look, nature is already relentless and harsh on its own - and humans are their own kind in nature. Why do we act like we are not one pack but as if we are our own little gods with our own little worlds. We live in one world and share the same common ancestor. And we’re all going to die at some time and in some way - why make life more difficult for our fellow humans than it already is?


Conspiracy Theories Poll + Discussion
#2

I think this may hold a key to the answer:


#3

Maybe a psychological trigger-threat is just as real as an immediate “someone-is-trying-to-take-my-water-puddle” threat in the Dawn of Man example. The man with the weapons(or tools), can overcome the last “owner” of the resource. Today the “water resource” has been replaced by…now I’m at a loss ---- what is it that people want and are threatened by that others have that makes them want to you use powerful weapons to kill others??? I suspect it’s something of psychological or “intellectual” value but I am not sure, and could be wrong.


#4

There are many “reasons”, but my answer is - the inability to cope and reason. Chemical defects.

We usually find the “reasons” later. I find the profiling interesting. But of course, the “reasons” don’t make sense to us, not in our right mind.

See, you’re trying to examine a logical reason. You won’t find it. But INFJs don’t like to accept that. They want an understandable reason, something to discover. There’s nothing there, cookie. Basically the answer is, he was fucked up. He saw no other option.

Maybe we all have the potential to get there, so that is perhaps the only reason why we should examine this so much. What would trigger you? What would make you not see the light?

Good people do bad things, bad people to bad things. There is ugly in this world, but there is also great beauty too.


#5

And great movie reference, but I don’t see the parallel in this situation. Some kill for ownership, which seems like more of an archaic kill. Some kill as a nation for peace (funny, huh?). And some people are as normal as shit and then one day something snaps. Just like when dogs snap. Our brains our failable. Sometimes there just is no “logic”. There’s just an ability to fire a weapon and a weapon within reach.


#6

Because life is tragic and painful. The lack of acknowledgement of such pain, whether it be physical, psychological or spiritual usually only begets more pain. In many ways that’s the problem.

I think our cultural assumptions, especially in the West, about what life ‘should’ be, has only made us so much more insecure and separated from the reality that this ‘gig’ is a short term affair for all of us. Many of whom will suffer greatly at some point in life.

I think the events in Vegas and those like them, make us feel hopeless because they momentary shock us out of the daily daydream of life’s routine, the routine that we’ve learned to take for granted. The more our societal advancements have made life appear more certain and secure, the more we suffer when the proverbial rug is pulled out from under our feet. There’s nothing else there to cushion the fall.

Death can happen to anyone, anytime, there’s no guarantee that your going to live a nice long life and pass away peacefully in your sleep aged 101.

Yet many of us think like that without ever really questioning it. I bet many people in Vegas thought like that too. None of them would of ever imagined, as they prepared to enjoy an evening of country music, that they soon might be dead. Why would you? None of us ever actually believe it will happen ‘to me’.

At a music concert, nor should you, not in a fair world at least. Unfortunately that’s not our world, when has it ever been. Even when things have been relatively safe in one part of the world, people are suffering on the other side through war, famine, genocide etc.

Don’t forget that so much of the perceived safety, culture and advancement in living standards we’ve grown accustomed too in the west has come at the expense of those less fortunate.

Sorry I’m aware I’m going off topic into big picture land, yet for me that’s the only way I can make sense of such things.

I know how it feels though. For a good while I became severely exhausted and down beat about the world, It really began to effect me, even though by all accounts nothing was actually happening to me. It helps to abstain from the news and all forms media for a while. Get back into your body, your mind, your own felt reality of life. Take things from there.

Whilst terrible events will always happen in this world, more goodness happens, humans are generally pretty decent the world over. You just won’t see that on the news, which is why you need to free yourself from that fear from time to time.

I know many people now days believe things are getting worse and the world is going crazy. What then, must people have thought 72 years ago when the first two atomic bombs were dropped on Japan? Or when the horrors of the holocaust became apparent. It’s because now we hear of everything in real time.

Yes, It almost breaks your mind trying to make sense of it all, yet somehow life continues. Because regardless of how terrible things do or don’t become, people still have to die and it’s not long before a new generation takes their place. Even if we succeed in creating heaven on Earth, would not the fact that we eventually have to leave only increase the fear of death?

I think what I’m trying to say is that you will never, ever be able to prevent a single human being from committing the kind of events that happened in Vegas the other night. Even if 99% of humanity decides to treat each other lovingly, it only takes 1% to decide to do otherwise. In a city of 600,000 it only took 1. That’s quite a lot of power to wield over so many people, maybe there’s your answer?

For those of us not willing to take out our inferiority on others, I think the only answer is to connect to a greater meaning beyond what culture currently represents. That will only happen through more sincere, honest communication and reflection on what it means to be human and how we can support each other. We need to create a new and more accommodating story, one that better includes the kind of individuals, who if they felt less socially isolated, might not believe that a gun was the only way to be heard. It many ways we need to make the education of children the most important job in the entire world.

Having said all that, sometimes a person may just want to pull the trigger.

What else can you do?


#7

I’ll say that I think it has to do with 7th position Fi.

Maybe ExTP is the high-bodycount Psychopath. Maybe not as terrifyingly evil as the other kinds of psychopath in theory, and less likely to target an individual.

I have had about half a dozen nightmares in my life where I killed people. Never at close range, never out of animosity. It was always very disappointing. I felt that disappointment as a kid when I shot at quail with a wrist rocket all summer and then finally hit one. I was like, “Shit, now he just looks hurt. This is not pleasant. I hope nobody saw me.”

The thing about lack of Fi I think is that ExTP morality is more bound by Si rules than by Fi internal ethics. Si rules are not analog the way ethics is. Breaking your own internal ethical rules is like swimming: it’s increasingly tiring. Breaking Si rules = jumping a fence. So once you hop over a Si fence, it takes a lot less energy to move forward than to reverse course and jump back over the fence.

I don’t know if this particular psychopath was ExTP, but my guess is that most others would have had more to say about their actions. This behavior looks to me like high-caliber sensory exploration.


#8

This.

And This.[quote=“Helix, post:6, topic:498”]
Even if 99% of humanity decides to treat each other lovingly, it only takes 1% to decide to do otherwise. In a city of 600,000 it only took 1. That’s quite a lot of power to wield over so many people, maybe there’s your answer?
[/quote]

Yes, yes…[quote=“Helix, post:6, topic:498”]
For those of us not willing to take out our inferiority on others, I think the only answer is to connect to a greater meaning beyond what culture currently represents.
[/quote]
Could this inferiority complex be due to ego - and ego-protection(that is the protection a unique identity) or reaction out of fear of losing one’s perceived ego at the root of violence against humanity?

@johnonymous this is interesting because it is a point-of-view that I(and may be many others) may not have considered. Lawlessness for it’s own sake - just pure energy going in a direction, once you’ve crossed that boundary, why go back? Am I reading you correctly?


#9

It’s interesting to differentiate between acts of tragedy and acts of cruelty. Like you mentioned, nature is often relentless and cruel, but nature is not evil. I believe what we are experience today is acts of evil(as malevolence; unnecessary cruelty).

Where does evil stem from? Baumeister in 1997 laid out four types of evil: I suggest reading the book if you’re interested in this topic.

  • Instrumental - personal gains, convenience
  • Egotism - high self worth, arrogance, god-like complex
  • Idealism - Machiavellian, ends justifies the means
  • Sadism - pleasure

There’s many reason why people act out violently. Lack of understanding and socializing would be top of the list. I’m not saying social conformity and social norms which bind and limits the personality. I mean the ability to empathize with other people. Piaget purpose that empathy is a learnt trait. Often times people who suffer don’t realize the suffering of others. They become isolated and inflicting pain is the only avenue of expression they have. As it is the only expression they’ve learned. Which is why I think language is a beautiful invention. The ability to curse and vent often stops acts of aggression. Of course, there’s a spectrum. In this case, I don’t know. He could just be sadistic. Sadism can be a product of society or an imbalance of chemicals.

If it makes you feel any better, in the grand scheme of time, terror has been dampening. I was watching a video between Jordan Peterson and Camille Paglia. Where JP used an example of: almost all perpetrator of domestic abuse is a victim of domestic abuse. Yet not all domestic victims become abusers. If they did, it would spiral out of control.


#11

Ultimately, it’s the very lack of self-questioning(examining the “I”), both as individuals and as a civilization - that these questions into our nature don’t get “bothered” with at all is why humans make life more difficult than it already is. It’s because they DON’T know, and don’t bother with it. Humans want to “prove” who they are and what they know without delving further into whether or not they are right…IMO.

And as @anhydrite listed which is par excellence on defining what a “hungry ego wants”:
Instrumental - personal gains, convenience
Egotism - high self worth, arrogance, god-like complex
Idealism - Machiavellian, ends justifies the means
Sadism - pleasure


#12

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.


#13

People seem to be looking for reasons to make it fit into a larger narrative because it seems so random and out of control (and overlook useless faroff wars because we’ve had that all explained). There probably is a big back story, no one does that much planning just for a bad day. Horribly tragic business, but from the point of view of the universe it’s no different than me pulling weeds in my garden.


#14

“Beyond all explanations which a good brain can give, why do we choose the worse and not the better, why hate rather than love, why greed and not generosity, why self-centred activity and not open total action? Why be mean when there are soaring mountains and flashing streams? Why jealousy and not love? Why?”

-J. Krishnamurti (both quotes)


#15

A lot of what humans do is quite violent, whether we file it under insanity or patriotism or self-defence or love or other.
Maybe humans need an enemy, or the idea of one, to feel united/meaningful. Way back the common enemy was nature or things in nature. While acting/creating things to protect oneself, simultaneously, it may also have forced them to “connect” to something beyond what could be seen.
Sure, we have come a long way, designing societies, cultures and lifestyles to protect us from these realities and lead a “sanitised” life, but that instinct is presumably still present. But now we have no common enemy, and productive or “useful” avenues to channelise it are reducing. We’re more individualistic in what we want to prove or achieve in a material sense.

We may have the same ancestor, but we don’t really find it easy to behave that way. Ranging from countries to individuals, most need a “them” to make sense of human life and its sufferings. Sometimes it’s a different country, or a religion, or race or government. Sometimes it’s people much closer to the idea of “home”, which is when it feels random and affects people more.

For example, this is how US reactions usually seem to unfold on man-caused disasters… (from an observer far away, feel free to ignore if it displeases you)

  • Shootings/other by white people: Try to find a reason, rationalise. Compassion for both shooter and victims. What made him do this? Are we all headed that way? Etc etc.

  • Islamic: label as an act of terrorism, becomes more linked to fear and anger and an easy mechanism to see as other. “If we just could keep them away from our country…” and/or “make them one of us”. In all narratives is an underlying “them”.

  • US drops drones on a perceived enemy/other types of war: Many Americans seem pretty reaction-less… (or blind?) to the mayhem their countries’ actions have caused in SO many places across the world. Maybe they are not aware of the extent as it is not “shown” much? Or is it an exhausting thought? Or feels justified? At least back in the day wars/battles were more tangible and felt, I imagine.
    (I’m of course not saying every individual American is responsible for these things).

(I’m taking the example of US, as that is what we’re talking about and most Mazians are Americans)

We forget, as @helix says, that this is a temporary ‘gig’ with an uncertain timeframe.
And many have lost the ability to connect to something beyond what can be seen.
We become burdened or even entitled to think things are equal and safe. The more we fight and strive to make it so, the more irrational life reveals itself to be.

If we’re smart we’ll make the right things within us, our enemies (laziness? excess info?? haha). But then that itself could become an ego-feeding thing… or make us hate ourselves. Well, who said it was easy?

Or maybe we need an evil-alien-invasion to feel united as Earthly beings, temporary though it will be!!!

(I’m just thinking aloud in a general sense, I don’t know what this specific shooter’s reasons would have been, maybe they will find something specific)


#16

“Why don’t you change? what prevents you?”

Always with the questions Jiddu :slight_smile:


#17

Reagan knew! Haha reminds me of Mars Attacks.

What a film.