Why there are so few NT's on this forum


#1

The reason that there are so few NT’s on this forum is because @blake has decided to never stop typing donald trump as an ENTJ. This is so obviously inaccurate in the mind of any NT who approaches the article, that it does make it impossible for rational people to believe that the rest of the content is going to be any good.

It is such bad data that any time I recommend the forum to anybody, I have to actually deal with it. If I forget to mention it ahead of time, it comes up later.

I think it’s fine. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be here. But the Ti mind basically throws such a massive red flag that it does make it really really hard for someone who hasn’t already read some of the more valuable articles to understand what am I going to get out of this stuff or to estimate how much of it will I have to ignore?

Just something to think about. The question of whether or not Trump might actually be an ENTJ is, admittedly, not one I entertain. I’m not even interested in it. But I am getting bored of having to explain ENTJs to anybody who I send to the site.

Does it matter that there aren’t that many NTs?

Honestly, after I write this, here is my thought:

Whenever I engage with NTs on other forums I find it exhausting.

I’ve circled around to thinking that maybe being able to see past one data point that one finds to be totally impossible to buy might be a good litmus test for whether or not a person is of the right frame of mind for being a part of this forum anyway. Maybe it’s a good litmus test.

Obviously nobody should come here forever, obvsiously it isn’t for all of us all the time.

Anyway. Interesting litmus test. It’s a harder pill to swallow for NTs than the astrology, is my bet. But adding a lot of NTs would just be, hmm. Exhausting. Or does anybody disagree with that? Maybe more NTs would be exhausting to me, interesting to NFs here.


#2

Wrong. There was never a lot of NTs on my site. Plus, I don’t think your brother (@jessie) is an ENTJ.

What I think is the particular problem is people don’t know what ENTJs look like. [quote=“johnonymous, post:1, topic:589”]
This is so obviously inaccurate in the mind of any NT who approaches the article, that it does make it impossible for rational people to believe that the rest of the content is going to be any good.
[/quote]

Then, they’re not being very rational, open-minded, open to discourse, discussion, new ideas. If people disregard this site on that basis, I can only say that I think they’re close-minded. But, I know people do and certainly not just because of the Donald Trump typing, which isn’t that irrational because there are a fair amount of people that seem to type him as such. I think typing Obama as an ISFJ was far more controversial and off-putting.

That’s probaly because the people you recommend the forum to are liberals and hate Donald Trump and have trouble seeing straight when it comes to him. I’ve encountered this personally many a time. To the point, where I minimize my discussion of him due to a massive bias against him.

But, what you said about how it be so obviously inaccurate in the mind of any NT who approaches the article, first of all, I doubt that. Any NT? How many NT’s have you talked to? There is also the problem whether I would agree you are talking about NT’s in the first place because I can’t even see these people you’re talking about.

At any rate, I think the reason there are so few NT’s on this forum, and on Stellar Maze in general is because this has always been the case, way before the Donald Trump thing.

Stellar Maze has always been INFJ-centric. INFP and ENFJ are the second and third most represented types on the site.

In general, it’s a vastly NF-biased site if we are looking at the four Kiersey categories of NF, NT, SP, and SJ.

And if a Rational type won’t come to the site because of the Donald Trump typing they are not living up to their NT-ness.

Reality is a lot of people won’t come here period because they don’t like the way I write about types. This includes INFJs.

Stellar Maze is obviously INFJ-centric. Simply look at how many articles I wrote about them compared to any other type.

I haven’t even really written about ENTJs except to bash them, which I intend to correct in the future simply because I think that ENTJ is actually quite a misunderstood type.

And I don’t understand why typing Donald Trump as an ENTJ is so far-fetched in the minds of these so-called rational types…or NT liberal types might be more accurate to say.

Liberal + NT type = Trump better not be an NT type.

or

Liberal + N type = Trump better not be an intuitive type.

Does the liberal bias never end?


#3

It’s an intriguing hypothesis, even though I must admit I have my reservations. From what I know about the guy, he seems to be an in-the-moment-type of person. The ENTJs I know all think long-term, and I don’t see that in Trump at all.


#4

Or if a Rational type buys into the popular portrayal of Trump as a bumbling dummy they are not living up to their NT-ness, he’s not. I probably concur with ENTJ. I used to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but liberals are making the former increasingly difficult. I still care about more than the 2 issues most important to hard core Trump supporters though, but I understand how he works them.


ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
#5

I like NTs, but I am also fine with having less of them here. The forum is very INFJ-centric, and hence gives a very fresh perspective (more leaning towards INFJ lens than anything) that is pretty much under-appreciated, if not, crucified in this day and age.

By the way, I don’t agree with you on ENTJ being an impossibility for Donald Trump. (I think he’s ENTJ, by the way) I personally think he is much less likely to be ESTP than ENTJ. I can buy ESTJ, and Wendy’s guess that Trump could be an ENTP is more feasible than ESTP to me, personally.

It’s probably true that NTs dislike stupidity with a burning passion, and they’d instinctively shut down an opinion-holder altogether if he/she seems to exhibit “lack of reason.” To me, I find this to be more out of being judgmental than being truly reasonable. Moral high horse in some sense, but in regards to being logical or rational. I think this method works for them most times, but sometimes it leads to error. This mostly applies to xTNPs as Ne-Si axis will be more likely to be concerned with one bad data point than those on the Ni-Se axis. INTJs can be susceptible to presumptive judgments as well probably due to Ti id.

But I would imagine xNTJs in general would not be so bothered, with ENTJs being the least bothered…Probably xNTJs just don’t go on the Maze in the first place because the people that actually come are often exploring their identity in some sense - and xNTJs are less fascinated with finding their “identity” in general…So if at all, it is probably not the “NTs” that are put off by a few opinions on the Maze, but the xTNPs who generally have problems understanding abstractions with regards to the human realm, human psyche and all that shit.

Anyways…why not, with the litmus test? Thinkers will always produce great ideas or absolutely insane, if not terrible ideas. But that’s better than going for the middling voice of today. I’m so tired of this pretense of an overall Ti-dominant attitude of this generation. Everywhere I see people correcting others (or silencing others) for harboring an idea that deviates from the norm, which is very much Ti and Ne-Si-biased or ENFPish (Fi and again Ne-Si centered) in regards to some matters. So yes, maybe this litmus test is a great way to filter people out who are quick to judge before reading or understanding the opinion-holder’s general ideas…but if they happen to open up their minds and see what the Maze is really about besides this one “data point” that they don’t agree upon, then of course their perspectives are welcomed!

I wouldn’t say NTs are exhausting for me, but rather Ti Gemini and the general focus on tiny details and data points exhausting. For example, ENTJs definitely don’t do this - their ideas are swiftly injected in a speech/discussion/etc out of nowhere, instinctive almost. They don’t follow a train of logical steps, and they don’t pick over logical fallacies (nor do they rationalize their ideas, at least not instinctively) than let’s say an INTP, ENTP, or INTJ.

Also, rigorous discussion over data points and constant nitpicking for any loopholes or logical fallacies can be tiring for almost anybody…including the big offenders themselves. Human beings don’t take a natural liking in it, methinks, but honestly I could be wrong.


#6

Hi Honey, welcome! By the way, hehe (sorry), I don’t agree with that statement. I think many people expect ENTJs to always know what they’re doing, and to be this brooding, constantly strategic highly competent asshole 24/7. I don’t agree. I think that’s more like INTJ…the mastermind type.

I think ENTJs often act more instinctively than we think. I think Ni-Se in the aux-tert position will lend to this approach with regards to most matters.

ENTJs can also DEFINITELY be in-the-moment. They’re very visceral people

…And they will definitely create chaos (many times erroneously) exactly on the spot when they have been hurt or offended…These are the ones that neglect the Si superego altogether, but are definitely interesting and brilliant despite being often insane, irrational, arrogant, childish and insufferable. I generally hate these sorts of ENTJs but I admire them. And ENFJs have the same tendency too (I mean the tendency to be more visceral, to act more instinctively, to be more in the moment), because of this Ni-Se in the aux-tert. ENTJs and ENFJs are alike in many ways…moreso than INTJs sometimes…

Anyways, whether or not you think Trump fits into this picture…I just don’t think it is true that ENTJs are always long-term thinkers, at least consciously. For them, ideas are intuited out of nowhere, like a sweeping fire. They have a scent for the big picture and act on it in a jiff, before “consciously” thinking. It’s very unusual…it’s fucking brilliant…so very different than what may arouse from Ti-brooding in the other NT Rationals… And I think ENTJs in their early stages of development or maybe “unbalanced” ENTJs (as much as I hate this corny terminology), can definitely act more than think to their detriment, but the ones that have aged like fine wine will know exactly when to act on their instinct and when to act on their cunning (or do both with ease and finesse :smiley:).


ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
#7

My main disagreement about trump being Entj is about cognitive function, it really isn’t about political ideology.

I think you’re tying liberal bias in too hard in a way that is derailing you here.

My experience with most NTs is that they are conservatives (edit to add: keep in mind my mbti experience is about 12 months deep). This is probably a recent reaction to the left’s adoption of anti-free speech stances. It takes an ENTP one data point, one moment of seeing the left adopting a repressive and controlling paradigm that the ENTP had not noticed in the past to be like, “what I am is the thing that that repressive paradigm is NOT.” I became a moderate pretty much overnight 6 months ago for this reason.

Perhaps a better lens on this is this one:
I would expect most ENTJs are politically conservative. I guess I don’t see what in their makeup would make them liberal. I would not imagine someone who is an estp or someone who is an Entj to be more or less liberal based on their type. This could be due to lack of experience—I’m definitely not great at typing. But no question your discussion of this in political terms presupposes an existing association between Entj and liberalism that I don’t comprehend.

I do think that NT tend to disregard things too quickly. Like “I’ll save time by finding one logical impossibility in the argument and then extend a rule from There and skip the whole thing.” But more generously, it’s mwntally painful to overlook things and keep reading. Like trying to walk on with a rock in the shoe. Let’s call it an NT weakness in this case. But it’s pain.

And you’re right this site is always going To attract more infjs and such. But I just think most NTs would benefit from it. Maybe they won’t benefit from it till they are ready to look past questionable conclusions on trump.


ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
#8

I think you’re right, it’s an xNTP problem—it’s MY problem, basically, for me and people like me.

I don’t care that much. I just secretly totally believe Blake doesn’t really think trump is an Entj, which is a weird thing to secretly believe isn’t it?

Yeah that’s what at root Here. A more honest way for me to state my argument here would have been (had I known the truth of my thoughts on it):

“Blake, I assume you don’t really think trump is an Entj, but are getting some mileage out of the argument, and wanted to note that there are costs to it too.”

But it occurs to me (maybe for the literal first time) that 1) maybe Blake believes trump is definitely and Entj, or 2) maybe trump is an Entj (possible of course).

Neither of those actually had really occurred to me. If one of those is true then I would guess the argument has to remain as is. But I’ll say that the introduction of antiliberal sentiment into the discussion causes me deep suspicions. I see Blake getting lots of mileage out of settling on trump being an NT, basically because of how satisfying it would be to upset what he sees as a liberal group. I imagine there is a lot of satisfaction here because I feel it too. I sometimes think I’m the only person in the world who likes trump more now than a year ago. Admittedly I liked him very little a year ago. But as an object, as just a thing, he’s risen in my estimation. He’s more interesting than I thought. Also I kinda think bannon might be Entp.


ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
#10

28 posts were split to a new topic: ENTJ!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)


ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
ENTJ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELFS! (also will you adopt donald trump to your kind?!)
#12

Maybe not — but…I think there isn’t a lot of Jessie on the boards yet to evaluate and Te is pretty good at managing image, and i see Jessie Doing a bit of that


#18

Yes! I agree haha. I think it’s worth staring clearly that my own views on how to learn have been changed dramatically by exposure to your writing, that my take on my own rationality and reasonableness has been challenged, and that my perspective about the risks to NTs of basically throwing out babies with bath water is a lot higher than i ever understood, and these realizations are thanks to you and this community!

And when I’m, say, in an intp Reddit thread reading intp’s measuring their brain dicks I start feeling spiritually vacant and like I wish that particularly NTPs could flesh out their sense of reality a bit. So then I see the trump stuff as a hindrance to Bringing some in.

But probably I’m projecting EVERYTHINg. It’s not like my goals for some random intps really matter. I’m probably just waning to draw closer to something spiritual myself.

yes. I just miss Ni. I think I’m just projecting.

/edit to add
I’m trying to learn to be alone, and it’s hard, thus too much reddit, thus all of this.

Gonna read some good book instead of continuing to project my loneliness into the forums


#23

@Wendy @johnonymous

Why delete?


#27

It would be helpful in typing me to know I’m female, though I do love being mistaken for a man. I should have included this in my intro (I’ll edit) but I’m always questioning/challenging how much gender really has to do with anything, though I know it has to do with everything.

I’m enjoying this thread; I’ll join more when I’m at a computer.


#28

I didn’t even write anything I just did it cuz she did it first lol


#33

Also, I believe there are little NTs here because the website is directed mostly towards INFJs, I found it because of that. Also most people don’t get Blakes sense of humor as far as I’ve noticed and get offended easily.


#34

FINE, NEW PERSON! just show up and be reasonable. Fine!

And again welcome :pray::+1::wave:


#36

@johnonymous thanks for the welcome! :wink:
@Wendy I read some butthurt ENTJs in his ENTJ entry, also some butthurt INTPs in the INTP vs ISTP article, so I kinda disagree with you, but yeah, it could be too that they don’t care about INFJs. I have noticed that thinkers can get easily offended by the right words. I offended an INTP joking about him being a heartless man.


#37

TANGLED


#39

Wolves and dogs don’t breed


#41

lol I just mean generally. I also know an infj married to an intp :slight_smile: