How did you come to infj for Nietzsche? Im curious:) But actually it might be hard to explain so no pressure.
One image or one word for each type
Yeah, that would take a full-length article to explain. Maybe even a book.
And it would depend on people having a sufficient understanding of Nietzsche, which, in my opinion, is lacking.
In other words, I’d have to explain a lot of stuff that I don’t want to explain.
However, for those that are interested, I’m fully open to answering specific questions about Nietzsche and his INFJness.
I think Nietzsche is one of the most interesting people I’ve ever had the privilege of discovering.
But, he is not the sort of dude that can be discussed in a cursory passing way. He is very complex and contradictory.
For one thing in favor of his INFJness, Nietzsche’s thought is very context-dependent. Take those thoughts out of the context in which they were expressed and they are easily subject to a thousand kinds of distortion.
The most famous example of this is his “God is dead” quote.
I get the impression most people like to trot out that quote as an affirmation of Nietzsche’s arrogance or blasphemous nature or something like that. Like, he is saying “I killed god”. Or as an affirmation of atheism.
If people would just take the time to add the next statement after that it would better reflect what he was saying. He says "God is dead…
…And we have killed him."
Which changes the whole tone of what he is saying.
He then goes on to lament over this act. And if we are to be worthy of it, then must we not become like gods ourselves?
Because basically the world sucks without god. People are very unhappy living without god.
His answer to this is pretty much the whole Ubermensch thing.
One must understand Nietzsche’s context, which is to say, his atmosphere, which is very subtle and nuanced.
Which is to say INFJ because of such a preponderance of the extraverted feeling function as this nuanced and subtle atmosphere. And it is not amenable to analysis, to being broken down into constituent parts. If you destroy this context, you destroy Nietzsche’s thought. Or distort it.
It’s very similar to poetic thought.
he values humor in a way that makes me think infj but only because you said infj probably…but im scared to be blasphemous:)
for all the reasons you put…about how easy it would be to just write crap about Nietzsche…
uebermut…that word conveys a note …it’s like the affect of courage…find it so interesting
hmmm if i have any questions i’ll definitely ask:)
he does stress degrees and shades
My litmus test for infj is this: did the individual a) rouse a group of people into to killing people or b) spend time in jail for their heretical assertions? If yes to either, then INFJ.
But seriously, I’ve been troubled over typing both INFJs and INTJs. I’m open to more research.
I don’t know enough about Nietzsche to comment…though that didn’t stop me from commenting…
cannot think of anything more tempting than to think about this in relation to Nietzsche…
doesn’t this pic grab your attention…Nietzsche is on the right
aren’t you immediately intrigued:) it makes me want to crack up without knowing why.
This is why BOTH INFJ and INTJ are not allowed to actually becomes “leaders” lol.
Their stupid Ni ideas get twisted up by even stupider/well-meaning people and then the INxJ just " :l … i don’t know what i expected…" while some genocide/eugenics experiment occurs.
Perhaps the midnight-clad woman, poised to strike, is the inspiration for Ubermenschen?
Otherwise, the pic is without rival…a true WTF!
That woman is Lou Salome, who holds a very interesting and singular place in Nietzsche’s biography, and indeed, in the lives of two other very famous men:
The other guy in the picture is Paul Ree, a German philosopher and author and close friend of Nietzsche (which is saying something since Nietzsche had very few friends).
Salome is the only woman Nietzsche ever proposed marriage to (which she refused).
yes. what is going on in this picture!
Edit: I found this…
“Nietzsche … arranged a photograph of the three of us, in spite of strong objections on the part of Paul Rée, who suffered throughout his life from a pathological aversion to the reproduction of his features. Nietzsche, who was in a playful mood, not only insisted on the photo, but took a personal hand in the details – for example the little (far too little!) cart, and even the touch of kitsch with the sprig of lilacs on the whip, etc. – Lou Andreas-Salomé, Looking Back”
just him setting up this photo makes him interesting:) his expression…
Nietzsche is definitely an INTJ or INFJ, that’s for certain. He shows signs of INFJness though. His method of philosophy/inquiry more so than anything else (it’s fundamentally inquiry into the human mind, human natures, politics, etc.) and his writing style / communication style is the other telling part. Not only the actual writing style, but the fact he writes to different audiences (he can write to different audiences in the same paragraph—and this doesn’t mean it’s all up to audience interpretation).
The thing about Nietzsche is that at a distance he seems like the prototypical INTJ — intellectual, arrogant, combative. And to the uninitiated he can seem like all these.
He’s even appears more of an INFJ if you’re interpretation of him is through the Straussian method (Strauss incidentally another INFJ).
he plays with around with words a lot too. that feels infj.
and this passage…
“The human soul and its limits, the scope of human inner experience to date, the heights, depths, and range of these experiences, the entire history of the soul so far and its still unexhausted possibilities: these are the predestined hunting grounds for a born psychologist and lover of the “great hunt.” But how often does he have to turn to himself in despair and say: “Only one! only a single one! and this huge forest, this primeval forest!” And then he wishes he had a few hundred hunting aides and well- trained bloodhounds he could drive into the history of the human soul to round up his game. To no avail: time and again he gets an ample and bitter reminder of how hard it is to find hounds and helpers for the very things that prick his curiosity. The problem with sending scholars into new and dangerous hunting grounds, where courage, intelligence, and subtlety in every sense are needed, is that they stop being useful the very moment the “great hunt” (but also the great danger) begins: – this is just when they lose their sharp eye and keen nose. For instance, it might take somebody who is himself as deep, as wounded, and as monstrous as Pascal’s intellectual conscience to figure out the sort of history that the problem of science and conscience has had in the soul of homines religiosi so far. And, even then, such a person would still need that vaulting sky of bright, malicious spirituality from whose heights this throng of dangerous and painful experiences could be surveyed, ordered, and forced into formulas. – But who would do me this service! But who would have the time to wait for such servants! – it is clear that they grow too rarely; they are so”
…“the great hunt”
it just sounds so infj to me anyone else? but maybe focusing on a snippet is not how you type someone. maybe intj can sound like this too. what do i know
this could also sound infj…
"Not to be stuck to any person, not even somebody we love best – every person is a prison and a corner. Not to be stuck in any homeland, even the neediest and most oppressed – it is not as hard to tear your heart away from a victorious homeland. Not to be stuck in some pity: even for higher men, whose rare torture and helplessness we ourselves have accidentally glimpsed. "
…almost because it sounds like such a potential struggle
and kind of exerted… not sure if that’s the right word. kind of forceful. and he does have a sweeping cobwebs effect like intjs often do. (and conveying sense of exigence as when intjs inspire by sheer excellence clarity buzz to where you feel you should raise your own standards) but it’s like an overall effect without definitive exposition (definitely very Ni). you connect to him through his words…you become very aware of Nietzsche…
And yet I keep cranking out the miles with my Mazda.
Nietzsche type definitely not straight forward. The argument for his poetic expression as Fe is good, his philosophy itself not Fe at all. He was always telling us not be concerned with the herd and social order and to do our own thing. Maybe Fi Id. Surely Te auxiliary would have laid out a clear protocol to become a superman, Nietzche left it to be inferred, which is as it should be. Probably INFJ.
yeah he isn’t really expository in sense of give a prescription.
i can’t honestly tell if he is infj or intj because turtles look like hares.
but sometimes i feel like i am imagining that i see a sagittarian (how is that for bs:)) discovery mode…like when he talks about the great hunt, mixed with feeling everything very seriously, mixed with a major determination. i saw him quoted as saying he couldn’t envision a marriage longer than 2 years because he had things planned. very determined.
but yeah no. no clue.
Sagittarius fits, not sure I see Fe down this rabbit hole.
“Deception, flattering, lying, deluding, talking behind the back, putting up a false front, living in borrowed splendor, wearing a mask, hiding behind convention, playing a role for others and for oneself — in short, a continuous fluttering around the solitary flame of vanity — is so much the rule and the law among men that there is almost nothing which is less comprehensible than how an honest and pure drive for truth could have arisen among them. They are deeply immersed in illusions and in dream images; their eyes merely glide over the surface of things and see “forms.””
(He’s kept me up late at night enough times that we’re on an informal basis now).
Nietzsche confuses me sometimes. Sometimes he writes “mystics” as if he has nothing in the least to do with them. Like he is so hardcore
Yes, he grumbles about the mystics, philosophers, and poets.
There’s a chapter in Zarathustra where he goes on about how he is weary of poets and that they lie too much, then admits that he’s a poet too. I won’t try to analyze his type any further, but this is a fine thread.
“It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!”
Most of his political philosophy was a re-ordering of the social order. Most of his writing was explicitly against the autonomous ‘individualism’ of the Enlightenment philosophers. He denigrates the herd, and masses, but that doesn’t mean he’s not concerned with the their well-being or the state of their souls. He’s constantly making social statements and assessments.
At the beginning of Nietzsche’s ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’ he mentions that Zarathustra ‘went down’. Nietzsche is intentionally mimicking Plato’s Socrates in the beginning of ‘The Republic’ where he says he ‘went down’. Both passages allegorically referring to the philosophical descent (from the philosophical peaks, aka Ni) to the ordinary everyday masses, and communicating a rhetorical form of the truth to them (through allegories, dialectic, poetry, and other forms of communication, aka Fe).
The eternal problem of philosophy is how you communicate something (the whole / Being) to a particular sets of people. Hence why people like Plato and Nietzsche don’t write doctrines.
Yes, there is a parallel. Nietzsche addresses Plato and other philosophers directly in Beyond Good and Evil; I think it’s here he states Christianity is Platonism for the masses (it is).