Some of the conversation on one of the threads around here got me thinking…
What are MBTI types you have been typed as aside from your own? And, do you think any of those could have some merit? Or have you always been positive of your typing?
Some of the conversation on one of the threads around here got me thinking…
What are MBTI types you have been typed as aside from your own? And, do you think any of those could have some merit? Or have you always been positive of your typing?
I’m too boring for this post, lol.
I was typed as INFP the first time I took an MBTI test. When I read the descriptions of the other types, I was still rock solid on being an INFP.
Sometimes I consider other types for the fun of it. I’ll go, “what if I am an inside out ESTJ that has not realized their full potential?”. Haha, absolutely not!
I read that Ne aux is the reason why INFPs may think they are other types, so I never take any musings I have on other types seriously.
Um, IRL, I do present myself in a non-INFP manner. I would say I am approximately ISTJ when doing that. With my family, I have learned to be S to a certain extent (for relational reasons, lol).
But, yeah. I guess I am a “pure” INFP type .
Although I generally get INTJ, I sometimes get INFP (but maybe because I took a socionics version of the test) and INTP?
I mean, it’d make some kind of sense except that I am not as rigorous with data as INTP. I do think knowledge is power, but maybe the emphasis is equally on knowledge AND power. lol… Not sure INTP see it in quiiitte the same way. They are much more pedantic and exact when it comes to their definitions and logical soundness of arguments. They don’t get as stressed out when going into the rabbit holes of what is a brute fact/qualia/epistemological truth and the like. Not that I don’t think it’s useful on some level, but half the time it’s a waste of time for me (and everybody else). lol
As for INFP, they are very nice types and I like that they get to be artists because I want to be an artist type!! But their main source of direction is from their feelings and that seems off to me. I do let my likes and dislikes decide for me at times, but I have more of a backdoor access to my feelings than automatic access. I have to go through a stage where I introspect about my feelings specifically.
Maybe I am actually ENTP or ENFP or ENTJ!!! But social anxiety has… kept me back!!! lol
I keep wondering since I am fairly scattered (and enjoy some Ne forays myself) and not quite as successful as I “ought to be” on paper if I were INTJ! Maybe astrology explains it. Maybe the light blessings of aspergers or other mental illness explains it. But other than some awful executive function/follow-through/prioritizing issues and social anxiety, a lot of INTJ thought processes and descriptions make sense to me.
No other types. It amazes me when people are not sure of their types but guess goes to show how complex some personalities are. Or how balanced. Or how unwilling to sit down with the cognitive function descriptions, etc. In my younger development I wasn’t very balanced which makes infp stick out like a sore thumb. Nowadays lol Still come across like infp. But it is possible mbti is made up… but somehow I believe it.
I thought I was an INFJ after stumbling upon Blake’s article about what succubi INFJ women could be. I always test as an INTJ. Always. And all of this equals ENFJ. Soooo…there. Maybe I am an INTJ but my astrology and other fucked-up-ness makes me look like an ENFJ? I dunno. What say you, people of Earth?
Erika, I’m pretty sure you’re an ENFJ. ENFJ women are less “soul-sucking” and more, uh…soul-gouging, I think. ENFJs are wild. Really hardcore. I think it’s awesome.
For me, I used to rarely if ever get INFJ on tests, and I never felt like the fluffy-special-harmonious-unicorn descriptions matched up with me much anyway. I think I usually got INTJ, followed by INFP. Knowing INTJ women now, I wish I was one, but back in the day I used to be a bit sad because I thought they sounded “mean” or haughty. Which I kind of was, often, but I disliked those aspects of myself.
Now that I do know a couple of INTJs personally, I do kind of wish I was and sometimes wonder if I am one after all. I think I’m a bit dry and hard for a supposed INFJ.
I nearly always tested INFJ. Once ISFJ, once INTJ. INFP was the only other type I seriously considered, but understanding the model better led me to rule it out conclusively.
My mother-in-law consistently types as INTJ and is quite attached to it, but it is obvious to me she’s INTP (and I have her INTJ son, my brother-in-law, as a contrast to make it plainer). I guess the official MB test maybe skews a bit to typing J/P as a trait rather than functionally, so it catches the dominant Ti but calls it J.
I suppose so. There are definite qualities that I share with the ENFJ type.
Maybe INFJs are like the fluffy-special-harmonious-unicorn and one of the four horses of the apocalypse?
This is why typing is so difficult to me. We all share many of the same qualities and may even present the same, but what function are we presenting is the question. How does an INFJ act in a crowd vs. and ENFJ? I bet a lot of the time it’s seemingly the same. It just depends on a lot of things.
Jumping on your two’s (can we pause for a second and appreciate the eloquence of the southern US dialect? and then restart this post?)
Jumping in on all y’all’s back and forth to say, @Ankh, you strike me as a ENFJ. I feel that I understand ENFJ from listening to your soundcloud. I listened once and won’t do it again because it didn’t ask a lot of questions; it didn’t really make me think. It was more like it tried to show me something. And I was like, “Bullshit. There is nothing to see at the center of that sphere, I don’t buy it.” It was wanting to force my intuition into a gymnastics I totally undervalue-- I think. I am actually not sure if I’m right, I am just saying that it actually bothered me a lot, and yet I thought it was good that you did it. I don’t think bothering people with art or attempts at art is bad (I think it’s close to objectively good actually). But I was annoyed by it. It grated me. It’s demand about there being something there at the center of it. I seriously don’t believe you.
Okay, so in contrast, the stuff that I do, that I am comfortable with on my own (even though when others interact with it I feel a lot of anxiety about it and shame about it) is driven by Ne, and secondarily, I suspect, by Ti. And when that stuff is what I would call “good” it’s because it almost forces Ne in the audience, I think. So perhaps your stuff forces Ni in a way I just don’t appreciate or don’t believe. It’s like my head says, “Nah, truth ain’t that direction.” Which all is to say, I bet that you are using Ni. And also I bet it’s pretty sincere and that my reaction is due to lack of Ni comprehension or comfort in me.
Hi @johnonymous, thanks for taking the time to engage me!
No worries, no one will make you listen to it. I am curious, which it did you listen to? Which one?
I’m sorry if I sound confused, I just want to make sure I understand some things.
You feel you understand ENFJs from listening to my soundcloud.
I either tried to bother listeners or made an attempt at art, or both.
I demanded, in my attempt at art (and/or bothering listeners), that there is something (I don’t know what) at the center of it.
"There is nothing to see at the center of that sphere."
And, I’m unbelievable in something…hm…
Please help me. I’m so terribly confused. I didn’t know I was demanding anything from anyone. I didn’t know I would bother people. I didn’t know I was supposed to ask any questions. I had no idea I would be forcing someone’s intuition into a back-bend. I didn’t know my sphere needed something at the center. I didn’t know I was suppose to make someone believe something. Please, please, @johnonymous, I really didn’t mean to offend you or anyone in my attempt at art. I hope you can find it in your intuition to forgive me. Maybe I should just take the site down. If this is the affect it has on people…
@Ankh. This is an emergency early post to stave off anxieties that I have caused, which could have been expected and which I think I should/will remedy with the response I am about to work on.
Hmmm. I think johnonymous is just trying to explain “cognitively” his mental reaction. Kind of like when my intp husband will listen to a strong Fe user and have an allergic reaction because his Ti is looking for some kind of meat (and I will be thinking how personable this Fe user is I liiiiike!). Or one person is like, ooh Fi cute warm, another is like “it’s invisible”, cold!!! brrr. It’s cognitive kind of. Interestingly if johnonymous is entp, then he is your “parent” if you are enfj. Which means that interaction would be like you would look up to, aspire to and ?cower? from entp?
Okay so first, I’ve spent a lot of time having my work critiqued, and critiquing other people’s work, and critiquing is probably not the most accurate word here. The best word is actually the one writers use most often which is Workshop. Having my work workshopped. This happened in undergrad, grad school, in a monthly skype writing group with a couple friends who write professionally, as a managing editor at useless highbrow lit blog, as an editor for a climate professor I had an undergrad course with who started paying me to help him not sound like he spoke english as a fourth language in his climeatology articles, etc. And then after schooling, in roles as a product manager type person, and as a VP strategy at a company that is not but one year was the fastest growing education company in the country. This is fun to write, because I love talking about myself, but that’s not the purpose. The purpose is to say: I have a view that is basically this “It’s worth the pain to get feedback on art.” And THAT is not necessarily true. It’s my own learned opinion. And I have noticed that I sometimes attempt to provide people with feedback, especially in matters of word-based art, knowing that it may or may not feel enormously painful to get it (I know if it were coming toward ME it would feel painful, does feel painful), because, like, I think it’s worth it for me when I get such feedback. And by the way, it’s never immediately clear to me that it’s worth it, even today when I get feedback. I always immediately regret it and think “This time I’m finished doing this shit” because I feel like, deeply terrified/ashamed when I get people’s feedback, every goddamned time. But in the medium term, without exception, I find it valuable. So I sort of memorize this line in my head which is like, “It was just as painful last time I got feedback and it was valuable in the medium term; it will almost certainly be valuable in this new scenario, in the medium term.” Kind of like when I go to the dentist and say in my head "Each of the previous three times I’ve had my teeth drilled without novocain, I have recognized, in the immediate aftermath, that the pain of not being numb during the drilling was worth the benefit of not being numb after the drilling, so while this is terrifying, I am close to certain it is again going to be totally worth not getting numb, again.
So, because we don’t have any relationship on this forum I suspect it was the wrong move for me to provide feedback. Because I kind of don’t have feedback for anybody that doesn’t verge toward either cause pain or falsely flatter. And before you say “NOOO, I appreciate it, glad you did” know I’m saying that my own assessment of the situation says to me, “I probably should make certain to make friends before providing feedback, and give context for the place from where the feedback comes. From a dude who is confident enough it’s worth it.” Like the dentist with the drill. Dentists. They are not known for saying “I think your tooth is fucked, but I really don’t want to hurt you, so let’s call it. Here: choose a toy from the treasure box. Sure, you can take two.”
So let me say a couple things that are true and are not reactions to your post, but are things I didn’t originally say because I sometimes forget that people obviously couldn’t know that if I provide harsh seeming feedback, there’s a zero percent chance I think the thing is not meaningful. If I provide like, angry feedback, it’s probably threatening. If I provide like, weird feedback, I’m probably not quite understanding my own take on it. If I provide really focused harsh feedback, I probably register it as particularly meaningful. The shit feedback I gave you lives between Weird and harsh, and I think it’s totally accurate to say that’s a function of my not being clear on my own take on it, with myself, and my finding it certainly meaningful.
ETA I’m still responding more but posted early again
Look - I was being a complete smart-ass.
What I have written and/or spoke is mine. It’s not there for any one person. If I want critique, I seek it. I don’t believe I asked for anyone’s critique. Wordpress and Soundcloud are avenues for my creative expression. They are pretty much a diary. Very personal. It helps me more so than just writing it down. Sometimes I need to speak it. And however that comes out, it’s therapy for me. It’s not something I go back to and edit. There is no editing me. Especially not in a release sense. It just is.
Sure, you don’t have to lie to me and tell me it’s great, when you don’t appreciate it. But again, I wasn’t looking for your critique. I get it. You’re a writer and you want to help me. I wasn’t looking for help, though. And you’re right - this might have been more well-received had you and I exchanged some words. But we haven’t.
So, this is my suggestion.
-No need to type any more of a response. Unless you feel it would greatly benefit this situation in some way.
-Let’s talk before you offer advice. (You have to admit, this all came out of left field.)
-Let’s be friends.
-And, if I feel the need and trust from you, I will seek your advice.
Sound good? I think you and I could learn a lot from each other.
Secondly, I taught writing at a state school and as a result have experience working with a lot of 20 year old people taking English 101 and 201, non-honors, which kind of means none of them are English Majors or Journalism Majors. But a lot of them are artists of one kind or another in ways they understand or don’t. And my experience, while limited, with about 200 students, was that it was true that in literally every case they were doing much much more impressive writing at the end of class compared to the beginning. This could be said as: I have evaluated myself as a good teacher. haha. But In my second semester I started cancelling class twice a week and meeting once for 5 minutes with each student individually instead, then meeting as a group once a week. This was the thing that helped students learn to write well. And mostly it involved just removing the shitty ideas they had adopted about how to write well.
Mostly it was tantamount to teaching people that Singing is not a thing you learn to do, it’s a thing you do. There isn’t such thing as a bad singer. Not me being nice; me being like, biological. Writing is a bit different, but not really. Whatever writing voice a kid has, whether he’s like legitimately boring on first take, can become basically really fucking strong with a couple weeks of course correction. Which, again, is mostly removing incorrect ideas about what good writing is.
I will say this surprised me. It surprised me when I realized that these students were ALL capable of good writing. I guess I would have hoped it was true, but didn’t dare to. I would have hoped and wondered if maybe it was true, because I myself learned to write well in my Jr year of high school after hating writing classes more than anything else until the prior year (took one year to unhate them and the next to learn to be better at it), and I learned to do it because of good teachers.
So I believe very much that writing is a thing that gets better with effort, and that it’s not magical. And that’s one of the bigger course corrections that most students need, as they tend to believe the opposite, which I think is very obviously not true. I do think the effort is more painful for some and so it may prove less efficient in a cost/benefit analysis than just being a mediocre writer, just like it’s more painful for me to actually check my bank account balance than my wife believes it is, and more awesome for me NOT to, and less painful for me to be overdrafted than she can imagine…and so anyway I’m not saying people MUST become better writers but only that doing so is not a mystery.
So, I’ll note that some of the best fiction writers I know would totally disagree with me on all of this. I think that’s because writing fiction is a lot different from writing in general. I suck at fiction almost entirely. Ive noticed fiction writers are a different bird. I plan to write fiction and have written some good fiction, but I know it’s happening in a different way for me. It’s definitely a foreign language.
And that’s an important note because you are creating fiction on Soundcloud. There is a clue I should pay attention to: I suck at fiction, your stuff is fiction, and my feedback may be off as a result. But I also know most fiction writers would be forgotten forever if they didn’t have editors, who, besides Toni Morrison, don’t just turn into great fiction writers all that easily. Interesting that my head went to Toni Morrison because I think she’s a fiction writer more in the vein of what a nonfiction writer does when they do fiction. David Foster Wallace also. There is a sort of palpable sense of things beyond the story being integral: the structure, the physical book, the relationship between voices on the page. Also this is a feature of contemporary literature anyway, which, I don’t know, maybe is basically what PostModern Lit is. But I don’t know, I guess I am conjecturing that the multiple voices and nonlinear structure and reckless abuse of the reader that is seen in Postmodern literature could be described as somehow kind of non-fictiony. Since in the non fiction world, you never get to finish a story, you never find one view. You don’t have a linear experience around any character or idea. So reality demands the messy structure. And the fiction of the folks most concerned with forcing us to look at what we REALLY are grappling with as humans (Infinite Jest, Beloved) do use what would be called nonconventional approaches to the traditional form of the novel.
Okay. shit. I am sorry, I have gotten off track.
The truth is you should double down on the art you’re creating, but I worry that in saying that you would think that you are totally on track: I think you could do better if you aggressively revise. The thing about revising stuff is it’s really good to get other people’s feedback before you do. And then, and I’m not kidding, you ignore everything they say and revise.
If everybody likes it, it’s meaningless. Everybody likes only things that cause immediate pleasure. There is nothing actually meaningful that does.
The answer to the question of like: Wait, why are you critiquing me? is that I wanted to say “I think you are an ENFJ,” and it didn’t seem useful to say that without explaining why I think that. And why is because I think your Soundcloud stuff challenged me.
And finally-finally, I have to admit I wouldn’t have thought of the critique as an effort to help you in the way that like, is, I want to help you succeed in art or anything. More like, I see the art as separate from people. I have a belief that it’s worth pretending the two things are different. Like the ideas and art exist outside of the person and are thus not owned by anybody. So the critique is probably more fairly described as to be to help the idea or the art to become more of what I want it to be. And I like getting what I want. ETA: to clarify, not owned by anybody = not owned by anybody’s mind/ego/soul/whatever. I’m all for ownership as a construct to funnel money to artists.
Haha. You are an interesting character to say in the least. I will say, it is an interesting concept you propose about art created from someone being separate from that same someone. That’s very interesting.
I’m open to your constructive criticism. If you so choose, you may leave me constructive criticism on my Soundcloud page by sending me a message.
Because ya know…ENFJs are always looking for a mentor.
I really enjoy how differently our heads work. This is fun and so interesting to me. I have a frenemy with whom interactions feel this way. I think on my end he’s a friend. From his view, I think we are frenemies.
So this is my head when reading the above quote:
– okay, she’s setting me up. I have been warned of sarcasm. I don’t believe that there really is sarcasm, in the same way there isn’t sarcasm when Toni Soprano pretends he’s going to have to assasinate you and then puts the gun down and says, “Uncle Johnonymous, I got you good.” I like seeing that kind of use of power but I don’t know how people do it.
–okay so she has taken her position as un-pin-down-able. Okay. So the proper course is to do precisely whatever the hell I want. Leave thread or respond, and then with whatever.
— hmm. What I want is to respond to those questions about not knowing she would bother people. Those are interesting points. I should say, “How could anybody ever know what is going to happen when you toss your work into the void between minds?”
- ah but wait. Have to remember, she’s positionless. These are statements about me, not her. She’s actually saying, “Why should I give a shit that it bothered you?” but with plausible deniability. Depending on my direction, she can either claim her points were given straight, and it’s weirdly cynical that I saw them as sarcasm, or she can claim that my taking them straight is funny, because, and this she would not have to state, they are obviously barbs in my directions, not real questions.
–ooohh hang on. Okay, it has occured to my head (at this point) for the first time that the position she is currently in is highly likely to be one of defensiveness. Okay. And the defensive person can not admit defensiveness to themselves or others, in my experience being defensive, which is vast. And so now I’m doing something not productive, and not even anymore naively; until now I thought that this was interesting and might be interesting to her. I thought I was maybe doing something good or neutral. But now I realize that there is a high chance I am doing something kind of like, not good, since I know that it might drive continual defensiveness. And since I don’t like doing things that aren’t good, and I don’t like not realizing that I’m going in the wrong direction, or being misunderstood, I feel negative, and kind of depressed. But no less intrigued by the differences of mind. And convinced, as always, that sarcasm is extremely unsettling territory for me. Sends me to a little hole of like “wait, let me figure out the entire world and then explain and lets start over.” Makes me want to say, “oh, okay. sorry that I caused that [because I don’t ever imagine people being sarcastic on purpose and not as a way of covering super negative emotions caused–basically–by the person they are being sarcastic to] Can we talk when you don’t want to be sarcastic? I’m still interested in the ideas I thought for a minute you were interested in. You’re going to have to tell me directly if you really don’t think they are interesting because that’s hard for me to infer, because it’s impossible for me to imagine.”
I struggle a great deal with accurately typing. If you’ve interacted with me on the forum on the subject you pretty much have seen me claiming ENTP, ENFP., I think. Maybe. Maybe Also INTP. Back at Stellar Maze I once claimed ENTJ.
I am at various times totally certain that I am X and totally certain I am not X.
I think looking at my autistic son for clues is a good idea. He would be easy to mistype. He’s popular in the preschool he used to attend because he socializes in a memorized way that is a couple years ahead of the kids. “I love your green eyes, Jackie!” (the history of that phrase is: Zootopia: I love your dress; him, in any context, uttered to any person, or while alone, at 2 am, at 8 am, at 4 in the afternoon: I love your dress (for 2 months), I love your pants (2 weeks), I love your shirt (1 week); I love your Color article of Clothing (for 2 weeks); I love your color hair (also Zootopia, but more quickly modified after initial introduction), I love your _ color _ eyes (months); I love your color thing, name.
When a 5 year old walks up and says. Good morning Jackie! I love your pink shirt! Can I see your eyes? I love your Blue eyes! Do you like my eyes?" you make friends pretty quick.
I think he’s an INTP, and I think I might also be an INTP, but I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t talking so I have always been doing a lot of extroverted stuff. Including Sales and stuff. But I know I’ve never been good at sales. I Heard another INTP say literarally the same thing: they were in sales forever, but they never were good at sales. The funny thing is that’s literally impossible. You cannot stay in sales if you are not good at sales in the way you can’t stay on top of the water if you are not good at swimming. So I kind of wonder if it’s the same sort of assessment of my extroverted efforts that she was making. I notice all the errors and work to correct them. They aren’t comfortable to make. It’s a ton of work.
Today I would bet I’m an INTP, not an ENTP. And the past few weeks. I think I am recognizing the Ti-Si loop in my less-productive times, and I definitely recognize the zoom in, zoom out and the lack of energy that it takes for me to live in Ti; and I recognize the immaturity but not utter hostility of my Si (which sounds like "Okay that’s fine, I’ll believe you, but literally not once in my life before this time has that been true in these kinds of cases); and I recognize the enormous Trauma I experience being interrupted and the weird Casual way I respond while experiencing that trauma, like “huh? sure no problem,” as sort of an extroverted Ne, as an alternative to the actual feeling I’m having which is, “DIE. NOW. YOU.” and also I think it’s a much better explanation for my relationship to Feeling in general. It’s so intense and like, unapproachable, that I have just no idea where it sits in the stack. Reading a bunch on inferior Fe this week I recognized, with a lot of work, that it matches my experience. And it would answer the long-standing concern I have about being typed as an ENTP: I notice that they way the other ENTPs I see relate to others socially is just too different from me. And finally, I realize that all my historical supposed comfort in the world of Fe stems from growing up in a place where 99% of people were Mormon and followed an extremely clearly defined social code. So like, recently, the last 10 years, it’s been notable that I find it enormously more difficult to predict how to interact socially. Back in the day I was popular and funny and uber mormon. Now I feel a lot more socially anxious and I notice myself failing all the time in conversations with people.
and one more: the effortless, unavoidable way my mind finds the bit that doesn’t fit. the snags. Which is why I can, if I return to my writing after doing the writing (which is Ne when I’m doing it), edit it to make it objectively better until it is in fact perfect in its internal structure. Not that there aren’t many ways of hitting perfect. Just like there are many perfect chords. This editing bit is Ti for me for sure; and it’s fun and easy and important. But I don’t usually do it unless I need to because it takes effort to stop feeling whacks of shame (inferior Fe) while reviewing the shitstorm draft (Auxillary Ne) even when literally every time I’ve followed that process in the past it has worked wonderfully (Si), and even though I am intellectually comfortable with the role of the draft in the process. Which is where I land.
You I like.
Fine, I will try to not be sarcastic. I find your bluntness…um…appealing? refreshing? This is all for realz btw. No sarcasm. Girl scout’s honor.
I am interested. This is gonna sound sarcastic: Please elaborate on your thoughts about an art not being owned by the creator, thus being owned whomever sees it, thus the viewers have license to give creative criticism and/or to tell the artist he/she is wrong. FYI I’m not a he/she, although I have a mustache (as you can see in my photo).
Blast me away, mentor.