Yeah, I’m no longer sure about that. I tend to think she is a very introverted ENFJ these days.
Yeah, her early albums were her best IMO. Rid of Me is my favorite (her second album). I liked her all the way up to Uh-Huh Her and then she lost me at White Chalk. However, I still think she is great no matter what she does. She is a true artist. Rare.
Yes! My absolute favorite album with her is Dance Hall at Louse Point with John Parish writing the music and playing the guitar and her writing the lyrics and singing (and writing the music too via vocal melodies of course).
This album is one of my favorite albums of all time. Spellbinding. Haunting. So good.
And the way Parish plays guitar is so unique and interesting. I’ve never heard anyone play guitar in that way. Why?
And yes, I have typed Parish as an INTJ too. And I still think he is.
His music and guitar with her words and melodies and voice. Just haunting and beautiful beyond words. My god. [quote=“schlopadoo, post:245, topic:32”]
Been gettin’ into PJ Harvey these days. Insanely talented.
She is the greatest female artist I’ve ever run across. Well, at least, she is my favorite.
But, I think if a person is going to get into her, they need to start with her early stuff and work their way up. If they start with her latest stuff, they are bound to not see what all the hoopla is about.
I say start at the beginning (Dry) and work your way up chronologically to Is This Desire? (with Dance Hall at Louse Point in there somewhere) and you’ll be just fine.
All the albums after that are optional and don’t really need to be listened to.
Actually, it seems that the last song on Is This Desire? (which is the title track) would function well as a swan song for her career.
That song devastates the living hell out of me. So quiet, so hushed, so primeval darkened wilderness and out of that arises the first relation of Man to Woman. And the dilemma. And the promise. And the question.
Man, she is a fucking genius artist just for being able to capture that in this one song.
Gives me chills and tears just thinking about it. So moving.
Can’t say enough good things about Miss Polly Jean Harvey.
And the shame of it is is that most people never heard of her.
WHOA! Rationale please! How interesting. At first, I thought she was an introverted ENFJ and was about to make a post on the Maze about it, as I simply didn’t think she was an INTJ at all. The whole Se-look around Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea days made me think she couldn’t have been an INTJ. Then as I kept listening to more and more songs by her, I began to think, no, she might be a very Libran INFJ, but then again she had a lot of hardness to her which seemed un-INFJ. Then her whole album Is This Desire? convinced me that she was an INTJ. She took trips into the lives and relationships of fictitious characters, all somewhat lonely or tortured in some way. It’s as if she’s desperately trying to understand herself what is the point of love, of desire, of relationships? What does it all mean, to be human, to have longing? I sensed disconnection and fascination at the same time. Furthermore, her piquant depictions of the inner world of each character, and her ability to conjure up so many emotions and truths from a detached/disconnected perspective, got me thinking that she must have been an Ni-dominant describing all this human-shit from the Ti-id laced with Fi-tertiary and some weird Te-experimentation.
But now you say ENFJ, and well, that could make sense to me in some ways. She never wants to repeat herself. She becomes a new person with every album. She started off looking like an INTJ kid not giving a fuck what she looks like. Then she becomes more hard-edged. Then really theatrical - Joan Crawford on acid. Then a sexy, confident cat in the 2000s…it all keeps changing. But she doesn’t seem like an enneatype 3 to me, nor an enneatype 8. Or do I truly understand the enneatypes at all? Could she be an enneatype 4 ENFJ? Could such even exist?
But then again, maybe all these persona changes may be attributed to the INTJ way of engineering or reconstructing a persona with a bit of Fe-superego involved. Plus, she never said any of her songs came from personal experience - or was she lying out of shyness/privacy? She came across to me as a very strong cat/tiger, not dependent on men or her sexuality. That made me lean more towards INTJ than ENFJ.
100% totally fucking agree. That song floored me. And such a genius exit to the whole album. Every song by her is some crazy Ni shit. She conjures up worlds, feelings that can’t be described, ugliness and beauty… Agh, now I’m thinking ENFJ for her again.
I agree, but I still have some more studying to do of her.
I really liked the song Westward Airways by Parish and some other songs by How Animals Move. What did you think of the album A Woman a Man Walked By? I thought Black Hearted Love was a little reminiscent of the drama of old PJ Harvey.
I have been binge listening to her. She is so great…
There is this video of her young and her eyes looks so soft and open, which maybe isn’t the usual enfj look but I think it is one of the looks…Aurora has soft eyes
Here is the video (Also shows Parish being awesome, chewing gum, beating on metal. This videos has a do what you can with what you got feel to it the way it’s shot.):
She’s got so much going on with inventive instrumentation, a voice that does so many things, she looks so masterful, she really does seem as brilliant as a brilliant intj. And in some pics she comes across dry.
But her lyrics just seem pretty F to me.
She does a lot of fruit comparisons.
In Happy and Bleeding, she hits some notes really reminiscent of Bjork (for like a moment), it’s always changing!!
“Fig fruit flower myself inside out for you”
In Hair, she wants to wash the guy out of her hair and the guy wants her to clean her breasts. Bodily reference
I can’t get enough. In Joe, I love how she conveys headache in the music and then behind you can hear her contralto or alto voice whatever it’s called. So amazing.
Some of the lyrics are more bare-boned. Like Is this Desire? Beautiful indeed.
Plants and Rags
“Plants and rags
Ease myself into a body bag
Plants and rags
Ease myself into a body bag”
isn’t that enfj? heck i feel this way sometimes with Ni id.
“you looking for the sun, boy?
the sun doesn’t shine down here, in the shadows”
And you know what? That is pretty much my rationale for my INTJ to ENFJ shift for her. And INFJ was in there intermediately, and very briefly, but, just wasn’t sitting right for me.
So, she was an INTJ to me for the longest time and that’s where she stayed for many years. Maybe because my first exposure to her was her early albums (like Rid of Me) where she didn’t seem to care about her appearance so much.
But, by the time you get to Stories From The City, Stories From the Sea, she yields a completely different impression.
Now, that in and of itself seems to lend itself more to ENFJ, the ability to morph and shift characters in appearance. Fe with N and Se. That type of thing.
I also started to notice when she talks about her approach to music she emphasizes the instinctive. Like, in a sense she seems very thoughtful, and even, intellectual, but that those sorts of analysis don’t hold much weight for her and she doesn’t really know why she does the things she has done besides that she sensed that she wanted to change things up in some way.
I will say this though. She does present as very polished, thoughtful, well-mannered, and refined in interviews. But, I think that is her Libra sun.
I’ve found this to be the case with other ENFJs that were Libra (or had a bunch of air in their chart in some way). They can come off on the surface as a thinking type with some form of intuition behind it all.
So, it was partly this discovery of other women that I am much less familiar with and realizing that they weren’t INTJs.
For some reason, I have a tendency in my typing history to classify a good portion of people as INTJs and then realize they are ENFJs. And not so much get hung up with “well, they might be INFJs then”. No, there seems to be some relationship between ENFJ and INTJ that bypasses the INFJ category.
And I think what it is is a certain strange and bizarre quality that can either be attributed to Te aux with Ti id (a certain detachment and cut off quality) but which can also be attributed to an Ni aux. projective thing with an Ne id (just strange shit).
But, for different reasons.
Since a Libra Sun seems to imitate a Te auxiliary function, I think that’s part of what it is with PJ that leads to that INTJ cool, reserved, and avant garde expression. But, over time, I kind of see that it’s just a facade of imposing coolness, intellectuality, tigerness, and “don’t get too close to me” sort of thing that Libra Suns tend to have.
With Libra women there is a polite distance sort of thing going on at first blush with them. They project a sort of untouchable gleaming persona. And they speak well and with good manners. Also, PJ is English and I think being English contributes to this Libra good manners thing in girls.
And there are very Libran themes (being a lady) in her music and lyrics.
Actually, I think PJ has very much struggled with her Libran drives in her art versus the more raw and visceral drives of the ENFJ temperament, which is, in some senses, the most anti-Libran temperament possible.
There is some evolution in her of releasing herself to the instinctive drives of woman. But, she started out more wrestling with that bursting forth in a Libran chaste and restrained way. Libra is not just Venusian, but, Saturnian. So, there is a lot of restraint and Victorian themes in Libra.
And courtly love versus “take me down to hell” love.
I also think she may be a Scorpio rising (at least that’s my current surmise with her) with her Libra Sun in the 12th house (making Libra even more difficult and kind of like her song “Taut” with John Parish on Dance Hall at Louse Point) Scorpio rising would emphasize these deep chthonic drives which are in themselves, the very opposite of Libra polished surfaces.
So, my thinking on that is that if she is an ENFJ, she is a very introverted one and the sign that most produces a deep introversion in the way most people think about it is Scorpio.
PJ’s work is very concerned with relationships between man and woman in a very problematical way.
She has also never been married, but, has been in a many relationships.
Also, yes, I think she is a pretty secretive and private person (this is typical of 12th house Sun and 12th house placements in general). I do think many of her songs (though not all) are talking about her personal experiences in relationship.
However, she obviously also often invents characters and describes their longing and desire from those characters point of view. But, I think her female characters are pretty much her in different guises. And they are female characters that are typically experiencing some form of torture, insanity, and desire (same difference) in relation to a man.
I think PJ was exploring what it means to be a woman. And her musical career and albums are document of her journey through that. She started out quite obviously in a lot of pain that I think had a lot to do with her desire for men and love and all that stuff. She felt painfully shy and undesirable and via her art has learned how to turn her suffering into joy.
She has also said that she needs to do art. Because if she doesn’t she feels sick. PJ is one of those people that has to do art or they will go mad.
She also describes herself as apolitical and indifferent to feminism. This leads heavily away from INTJ and much more to ENFJ.
And now for something quite special, as a way of saying thanks to you guys for all the great insights we’ve been sharing during these difficult times. This is the most spiritually uplifting dance mix I’ve ever come across, and I’m listening to it right now on my iPhone to help me focus while at work. It just gets keeps better the more I listen to it, and it’s already started to elevate my Ni into the higher realms of existence. As a result, I’ve been having some amazing “psychic” type perceptions each night as I drift off to sleep, including a couple of out-of-body experiences, as well as a visit from the spirit of one of my childhood friends who took his own life many years ago. And no, I haven’t been smoking anything I shouldn’t…