your unemperical theory on autism in relationship to personality types please?


#1

i tend to think there are some autistic diagnoses that are one thing and some that are another. and the first thing is roughly an extension of the so-called neurotypical spectrum of personality while the second is more distinctly different.

im not totally sure where my own son shows up though. which is evidence for the fact that these two things are just really me noticing different points on a full spectrum. also its probbaly silly to conceive of a single continuum when personality is compelx enough to warrant a multidemensional spectrum even in metaphor.

anyway, i made this little thing a while back and ran into it in my notes:

might need to click it to see ful thing as its oddly shaped

curious about others thoughts here about the autistic spectrum. i expect some people are way off and not up to speed on the best thinking and research but i dont care and hope nobody gets all angry and nuts when someone asserts something wrong or whatever. the autistic community is hostile toward itself. its not a safe space lol. but this board seems to handle complex issues better than any ive seen.


#2

I can make it really uncomplex if you want:

Ti has the most to do with autism. Fe, the least.

Ti in combination with Ne has the mostest mostest to do with autism.

And thus the type that is the most autistic is…drum roll please…

INTP.


#3

fair enough! but the way that a set of young autistic kids present – i interact with them daily when i drop mine off at school with the rest of them – is so fascinating. i am attempting to see what they have in common and struggle to at times. but perhaps they have almost nothing in common. Ti takes, maybe, an almost inhuman approach to experince, and Ni id as the hardware leaves a kid in a pretty unique early years state i would imagine. so inferior Fe and shit Se and Role Fi and you get some fucking weird and quite divergent, atypical rule seeking, rule enforcing, and then rule breaking (Ne) wackos. that actially sounds prtty accurate.

rules, shitty appeoaches to language, and absence of typical physical adaptation in the social realm (hug you or hit you? youre hurting my ears when you talk, but 9/10 times im not registering your talking). Ti, inferior Fe and total lack of comprehension of Se.

i guess if i think about my total lack of comprehension of Fi, and lack of awareness that i was missing something others had, plus my relative comfort with my own state of Se, which i wasnt self reflective enough until later to realize i should be more contemplative of, i can imagine that an intp, with Se and Fi swapped, could be totally blind to the Se inadequacy, seemingly not giving a shit that people want him to learn to speak differently, and self satisfied but obviously weak with Fi, seemingly emotional as a function of rule based existence Ti. Fi as a role function.


#4

I think this diagram rocks.


#5

Yeah, I was going to make a similar observation but @Blake said it first. Most of the autistic spectrum kids I’ve known show extreme Ti strengths with a corresponding lack of mature Fe.

The second most noticable type-related factor is poorly developed Sensing, so INTP is the type most likely to be diagnosed as autistic.


#6

There’s also that quack theory that people spout that autists are really really sensitive in a Fe way and hence combust and explode into the opposite at a certain point.

“He’s just so sensitive he became insensitive”


#7

Yeah and a lot of autistic people like to tell themselves that. Annoys me. I’m like, just admit you suck at dealing with people and get sensory overload. Self awareness is the first step to blah blah blah etc.

I agree with Blake. Autism = Ti overdrive, Fe dysfunction. (At least, in “higher functioning” types that’s usually a general surface overview; people with the condition more pronounced obviously will have a lot more stuff to deal with, and have more easily observable traits than just that.)

I should write a big post one of these days in how it shows up in different types. I think it would be really helpful to a lot of people here because I honestly think a lot of us have undiagnosed Asperger’s (aka whatever-level autism or w/e the right term is now). Which, if youre not the Stereotypical INTP Asperg, often gets misdiagnosed as or is bundled with (especially in women) ADHD, OCD, etc.

Autism Speaks has a great diagnostic tool for adults who think they might have it and missed being diagnosed as children. I’ll post it here sometime for everyone.

The problem with people even getting recommended for autism testing is people tend to have fixed ideas of “what autistic people act like” and if they have one experience with someone with, say, Asperger’s they then expect everyone who’s supposed to be autistic to act just like that person. But “autism” isn’t a personality trait or type, it just affects how those traits will manifest in different people.

An extroverted autistic person and introverted autistic person will act as different from each other as a extroverted versus introverted neurotypical people. And, say, an INFJ with Asperger’s will look as different from an ISTJ with Asperger’s as a neurotypical INFJ will look from a neurotypical ISTJ.

Which is to say very different. They may have a lot of similar symptoms but those symptoms could manifest in wildly different ways.


#8

Autism in general seems like a cluster of all sorts of sensory and social processing issues.

I did say somewhere here that people with aspergers tend to gather together (and then uh… INFP join in because INFP are drawn to the weird). Everyone should get tested! ‘-’

That “quack theory” about uhm… “highly sensitive people” is possibly perpetuated by ExFP who really badly need people to like them and ISFP who really badly want to have whatever selfish thing they desire without being “judged” lol. Whether or not these people are actually on the spectrum at the same time is also hit or miss probably.


#9

My own quack theory is that some sort Lacanian (Freudian) investigation is needed.

I was speaking to a carer of autistic children recently and she told me that it was extremely common for these children to be really normal and similar to other children, full of life and social interaction, and then at age 4 they just become mute or sullen, or that there’s some specific change in their behaviour. Like their soul has been sucked out.

This struck me as pertinent because it’s basically at age 4 that Lacan believed we entered the ‘symbolic order’, the domain of speech, logic, relating to others, and society. It seemed relevant. As if these children got stuck or dsyfunctioned in the stage between the mirror and symbolic state of Freudian development.

But then again not all autistics develop their symptoms at age 4, some are seen to have problems at birth, or much later. But then again, most of these symptoms could actually be different disorders grouped under one label. i.e. there’s real autistic people who have physical / medical problems in the brain, and then there’s different types whose disorder is entirely ‘psychological’ or something.

Schizophrenia / psychosis and autism are the two great psychological mysteries of our age and it’s concerning that modern professionals ignore people like Freud, Jung, and Lacan, who may have great insights into these problems.